that day career advice went off the rails.txt

nathantech:
are none of the Denver companies offering relocation expenses?

marc:
i dont think Denver is that desperate for engineers, but probably on a case by case basis

nathantech:
SF companies offer relocation a ton

nathantech:
looking back on my 20's. I wish I had moved out of the country and worked remotely.

david.dimaria:
I imagine some will relocate, but I haven’t heard of any

nathantech:
so engineers are dishing out thousands to support their job

nathantech:
geez

nathantech:
my girlfriend just went to Memphis. Is in the hole 4k still.

nathantech:
I'd need a real employment agreement in order to justify spending 5k up front.

nathantech:
not at-will employment

nathantech:
also have to consider the real estate investment local engineers have already made into the community

marc:
why accept a job somewhere that you’re not willing to pay to move yourself? I feel like having relocation paid for is an added benefit

nathantech:
because what happens if the job doesn't work out

marc:
I happened to be moving to SF anyway, and my company paying for it was awesome

nathantech:
then you have to float even more expenses

marc:
exactly, if you don’t want to move to the city without the job, why move there for the job. is my thinking

nathantech:
I am sick of at-will employment

nathantech:
startups need to offer relocation no matter what to counter their instability

nathantech:
I can only see established biz getting away with this

nathantech:
my girlfriend was promised car shipping expenses. she got out to the job. and they backtracked.

nathantech:
that's happened to me a lot. promised airfare. then they break promise.

magento-not-magneto:
the sooner you realize a company could care less about you, the better

nathantech:
so there aren't any companies that care about their workers?

danhannigan:
`to counter their instability` - if you're (and let's be real, a ton of other folks) already willing to take a job knowing that may not be stable how could you expect them to counter or offer incentives to ease that?

nathantech:
it really sounds like I'd have to sell my place. invest 200k in a new place.

nathantech:
<@U040F1EUZ> by requiring they give notice before firing

magento-not-magneto:
Companies care about their employees, but they care about their profits more

nathantech:
that's one good way

danhannigan:
All of colorado is at will, right?

nathantech:
I'm not sure. I know Florida is 100% at-will

david.dimaria:
Yes

nathantech:
companies would really help their reputation by having better off boarding processes.

jtadmor:
i mean, look at the ratio of gigs postings looking for engineers vs. experienced engineers looking for work

mike.green:
<@U3XGBUQUR>

mike.green:
if you're looking for stability and relo, then maybe a startup isn't for you

nathantech:
ya, I get it, supply and demand is out of wack

danhannigan:
Yeah I was going to say that <@U1HN2LRF1> = Everyone knows startups are volatile and could disintegrate over night - to expect anything else is like saying "fire shouldn't be hot" - it just is what it is, isn't it? There are other opportunities out there that _aren't_ startups and have more stability.

nathantech:
I am just saying startups could change a couple things. to make people want to work for them again.

mike.green:
I don't see the perception that people dont want to work for them. Where do you get that?

nathantech:
seniors don't after they learn the tricks.

magento-not-magneto:
to be fair, established companies are no safer than startups

magento-not-magneto:
at least from personal experience

nathantech:
<@U30MD5GQ7> agreed

nathantech:
bigger companies just have better off boarding

jtadmor:
i work at a startup, i've had a solid paycheck for 2 years and great benefits

magento-not-magneto:
I've been at two companies that have been around for 20 years that went bankrupt

jtadmor:
my partner works at a larger company that just got bought out

jtadmor:
33% of employees laid off

jtadmor:
benefits slashed

jtadmor:
shit happens

jtadmor:
if you're a good developer you'll be fine in this market

magento-not-magneto:
I was told by someone that it's no riskier to work for yourself than it is to work for someone else

nathantech:
I'm a great engineer. This past year was my worse in 15 years.

nathantech:
that's why I am working for myself again, way more stable.

mike.green:
You need to find the right startup - a small business that churns cash in hopes to get acquired is not a startup, for example.  If you manage yourself and your job right a startup with the risk, effort required and possible reward ($ or feel good) can work, so I wouldnt agree that people dont want to work for a startup after they see behind the 'tricks' curtain

nathantech:
idk. I've  tried like 6 startups.

nathantech:
all of them had the same issues.

mike.green:
So none of them came out of startup mode? Or were you at them for 3 months and bailed? 6 jobs x 1-2 years each is quite the investment.

nathantech:
I at least learned what not to do. when I get my next one going.

nathantech:
half the time, the problem is. they aren't making revenue.

nathantech:
the other half the time, if they are making the $$. the bosses went crazy doing it. and are a-holes.

nathantech:
I am used to the money making startups, full of a-holes. they had to. to get anywhere.

jtadmor:
hmm

jtadmor:
the startup i work at does not fit that bill

jtadmor:
but ive heard from others that they've encountered some of that

nathantech:
its different if you are in a junior role. like making $70k

nathantech:
the higher you go. the more stress.

nathantech:
I'd probably be happier just working some part time junior role with less expectations.

jtadmor:
so do it?

nathantech:
but make sure your boss knows. so they don't over expect.

nathantech:
I once took a 40k role. the guy was super demanding. because he didn't know my salary.

jtadmor:
like complaining you work a job that makes significantly over $70k (which is by the way double avg salary in this country)

jtadmor:
and that there's gosh, expectations?

jtadmor:
wtf

nathantech:
flipped out because I took 2 hours to complete a UI form

nathantech:
even if $70k is the norm. it's not good pay anymore.

nathantech:
cost of living isn't lining up with the averages.

jtadmor:
i started out making $65k and felt really well off

jtadmor:
its all a matter of perspective my friend

nathantech:
you could buy a house in the 60's at 1x salary

nathantech:
now it's like 10x 20x in a lot of places

jtadmor:
so you're looking for a reliable, stress free job with a bunch of nice relaxed people, and its at a startup, and it also pays enough to buy a home in one of the fastest-growing real estate markets int he country?

nathantech:
nah

nathantech:
I am just looking for a job that last long enough. I can save up for a house.

nathantech:
I don't care if its stressful. full of a holes. etc...

nathantech:
it just needs to last long enough. that I am not out a bunch of money in expenses.

magento-not-magneto:
I'm at 75k and feel like I'm ahead of the curve

nathantech:
you got a place paid for?

magento-not-magneto:
I'm paying a bank that owns a place, yes

nathantech:
that's not good for ,e

magento-not-magneto:
and how old are you?

nathantech:
if you will lose all your $$ if you are out of work for just a few months

nathantech:
35

mike.green:
topic-life-advice?

magento-not-magneto:
I'm 27 with a mortgage for 300,000 on a 400,000 new build. We have $55,000 in savings on top of that

drewdahlman:
that’s… how buying a house works…

magento-not-magneto:
we are INCREDIBLY fortunate

nathantech:
dude, you will end up paying 3x by the end.

magento-not-magneto:
most of the people I know are living in parents basements or being destroyed by rent

nathantech:
got to get it paid off

magento-not-magneto:
what dream world do you live in where you can just pay off your house by 30?

drewdahlman:
uhh…

magento-not-magneto:
the vast majority of this country can't do that

nathantech:
buy a cheaper place

drewdahlman:
dude your house is the last thing you should have completely paid off

magento-not-magneto:
this is Denver

magento-not-magneto:
I don't want to live in a shit hole

nathantech:
I'd rather live in a shit hole that's mine

jtadmor:
lol

jtadmor:
time for me to bow out

jtadmor:
i wish you best of luck in your endevours <@U3XGBUQUR>

nathantech:
thanks

magento-not-magneto:
Nothing like coming home to your run down shit hole after a long day of making someone else rich

drewdahlman:
<https://www.zillow.com/detroit-mi/>

nathantech:
ya, just to me, rich is owning what you have

magento-not-magneto:
That's wealth

magento-not-magneto:
the word you are looking for is wealth

nathantech:
yep

magento-not-magneto:
We are making extra payments and plan on having it paid off in 15

magento-not-magneto:
but that's beside the point

magento-not-magneto:
we can afford that

magento-not-magneto:
most people can't

magento-not-magneto:
and that's on what you would call a shitty junior level salary

nathantech:
I read this book called "Millionaire Fast Lane". it's for engineers, techs.

magento-not-magneto:
Might I suggest 'Never Eat Alone'

nathantech:
will look it up. I am also reading Rework, by 37 Signals. Peeps that got Rails popular.

drewdahlman:
I heard you can make $$ quick with this company called Amway

magento-not-magneto:
You, too, can own your own shithole

nathantech:
haha. the most I saved was 30k in 3 months.

magento-not-magneto:
just pay this guy $1500/mo

nathantech:
my goal is to just save $50-$60k and buy another cheap place in Florida or somewhere else.

magento-not-magneto:
k, keep me posted

nathantech:
could you take your $55k and move outside Denver?

magento-not-magneto:
can you even want make outside what?

magento-not-magneto:
I'm building in Castle Rock

nathantech:
dude, I can't wait for Elon Musk to build the hyper loop. will be a game changer.

nathantech:
will kill this real estate non sense. 500k for a house.

jtadmor:
yea real estate is crazy

jtadmor:
<http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_eEkRXhtPbM/T4oB31QC5ZI/AAAAAAAABU0/7cwpBE7naJg/s1600/U.S.+Housing+vs+Stock+Market+Growth.jpg>

nathantech:
Denver is safe. but all these other cities are at sea level.

nathantech:
Miami is already flooding on many streets. who would pay for that?

magento-not-magneto:
I don't see how a hyperloop to Greely is going to kill a housing market

jtadmor:
<https://cdn.uncommonwisdomdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/moneyandmarkets.com/UWD/104/housing-prices.gif>

nathantech:
because I can commute to work.

nathantech:
NYC to LA in 3 hours

magento-not-magneto:
You are going to be dead before there is a hyperloop between Denver and LA

jtadmor:
Outside of a small (pick your explanation of market fraud and govt stupidity) period of time, housing prices just go up with the general CPI

marc:
i thought it was SF to LA in 90min

magento-not-magneto:
700 MPH is the estimated speed of these things, yes?

nathantech:
3000 mph

nathantech:
uses a vaccum to bypass sound barrier problem

magento-not-magneto:
Hyperloop One, a Los Angeles-based company, selected the Rocky Mountain Hyperloop team as one of 35 worldwide semifinalists to build levitation-based technology that carries passengers and cargo at speeds of up to 700 mph, according to a news release sent Saturday from the Colorado Department of Transportation.

nathantech:
cool, either hyper loop or personal quad copters would increase our standard of living.

nathantech:
I read a Bain Capital paper. that transit is going to approach 0 cost.

dylan:
As someone who was born and raised in Greeley, don't count on a "fast link" from DIA&lt;-&gt;Greeley to increase anyone's standard of living. No one wants to live in Greeley anyway, and fast commutes to the airport in an agricultural town doth not a profitable business model make.

dylan:
Location matters; even if transit costs get brought down.

danhannigan:
And it smells funny

dylan:
Yeah I think the whole idea of a vacuum tube sucking air from Greeley to DIA is just begging to be ridiculed

magento-not-magneto:
No guys, it's going to kill the housing market

magento-not-magneto:
people can live anywhere and work in Denver

magento-not-magneto:
because people live in Denver for commute times

marc:
yeah i think living in Denver is more about proximity

magento-not-magneto:
they won't mind getting beers with the local cows and horses

marc:
lol exactly

magento-not-magneto:
after work

squaredbrett:
more so than the shit show it is now?

nathantech:
there's  big conflict over Agenda 21 vs. New peeps like Elon Musk.

nathantech:
the old wealth wants to keep things pushed into cities. to keep their assets making $$.

nathantech:
but new wealth like Elon is pushing for distributed tech.

magento-not-magneto:
<@U30MD5GQ7|magento-not-magneto> uploaded a file: <https://denver-devs.slack.com/files/magento-not-magneto/F41HSJPRP/hero-recaptcha-demo.gif|hero-recaptcha-demo.gif> and commented: Prove it nathantech!

nathantech:
I am reading their papers and ordinances

nathantech:
I don't want to say too much. people ridicule me for looking at future.

squaredbrett:
what is your horizon of time in foresight?

nathantech:
for which part?

nathantech:
driverless cars?

squaredbrett:
fad

nathantech:
what's fad?

squaredbrett:
driverless cars

nathantech:
the commercial truckers are leading driverless. it's here, another 5 years.

nathantech:
logistics will be transformed.

squaredbrett:
i find it hard to accept, much like the rest of humans on this planet

nathantech:
I agree with you guys. hyper loop has a ton of obstacles.

nathantech:
they will only be able to use maintained highways for driverless trucks. like Texas corridor.

nathantech:
I've been about 80% right on my predictions in last 15 years.

squaredbrett:
what else you predicting?

nathantech:
I saw housing crash because I worked in the banks

nathantech:
my entire bank sold out 3 years before

nathantech:
they only sold Florida off, hehe

marc:
what does this have to do with advice about my career!?

willklein:
hahah ^

drewdahlman:
Houses marc

nathantech:
because it can help you position your career in tech

dylan:
Driverless careers would be catastrophic

squaredbrett:
<@U3XGBUQUR> is there another housing crash on its way?

drewdahlman:
careers -&gt; houses -&gt; hyper loops -&gt; wild predictions

nathantech:
the housing crash has been covered up now with 1 simple law change

squaredbrett:
do all the things you said you would now, because it won’t be available tomorrow.

nathantech:
banks don't pay property tax any more

nathantech:
so they can sit on tons of empty properties. not be forced to sell.

nathantech:
in the 80's. they had to sell. force liquidate.

nathantech:
the stock market is all time high because of stock buybacks.

nathantech:
it can sit there forever. there's no volume.

nathantech:
anyone can say their house or stock is worth xxx amount. doesn't mean it will sell for that.

nathantech:
the population in America is stagnate. So nothing will move.

nathantech:
next tech sectors in in Smart Grid

nathantech:
to make things more efficient.

magento-not-magneto:
Denver population is not stagnant though

magento-not-magneto:
and this is a Denver slack

nathantech:
ya, there is migration to midwest

nathantech:
I mean stagnate as a country

nathantech:
real estate is a regional thing, you are correct

nathantech:
I looked at the migration maps. people are even leaving FL for the midwest. the coasts are dieing.

danhannigan:
I have a prediction that I'm probably 100% right on:

Very soon I'm going to ask that we shuffle this convo to a new channel (<#C040F1EV7|topic-random>) or push it back on the "career advice" scope :slightly_smiling_face: Or thread it

nathantech:
k

magento-not-magneto:
see you in random

magento-not-magneto:
how do you guys handle pre-employment "task" reviews?

magento-not-magneto:
I was requested to perform a couple of tasks to see how my skills jive with their needs.

magento-not-magneto:
for a contract gig

marc:
depends on how long they want you to spend on it

magento-not-magneto:
Simple theme modifications

marc:
for money?

magento-not-magneto:
I think it's more of a competency check, no money

magento-not-magneto:
contract to FT possibility though

magento-not-magneto:
I guess, how much is fair to do for free?

magento-not-magneto:
couple hours of dev work?

sean_szurko:
Last time I did one weekend.  Would not do again.

magento-not-magneto:
as in 16 hours of work?

sean_szurko:
roughly

magento-not-magneto:
or you spent your entire weekend working on it?

magento-not-magneto:
I don't think it will be quite like that

marc:
especially as a contractor, f that

sean_szurko:
Yea it was a terrible move on my part

marc:
i’ve spent some time for a “test project” or whatever

sean_szurko:
Should have sent them a "Go to hell" email back

marc:
but i really wanted the job

magento-not-magneto:
I really want this gig, it's in the same industry I was in

magento-not-magneto:
ecommerce wise

marc:
one company had me do that and didnt give me the job. it went straight on github named “company technical challenge”

magento-not-magneto:
The Denver Magento community is tiny, I don't think they'd risk me bad mouthing their company

sean_szurko:
I will post mine on there the same way <@U0F9TFK7T>, just as soon as I'm done with my current place :slightly_smiling_face:

marc:
yeah. if you ask me to spend a bunch of time on something for free, you can expect me to post that on github for sure

willklein:
we've talked about this before... we use a github exercise as one option of our technical interview. some people choose to do something fully in person for a better time box. we require a public github submission though. takes 2-4 hrs

marc:
very nice

willklein:
i did that for my last company. i just added it to a repo i already had for code problems, <https://github.com/willklein/kata>

marc:
“build your portfolio” is so much better than “do this for us, spend 2 days on it"

marc:
i get it though. technical interviews take up a lot of time

willklein:
yeah. i could have written blog posts about them if i wanted to. now i'd probably be embarrassed at what 3.5 yrs ago looks like

willklein:
i think the real challenge is getting to see someone prove they can write decent code. nothing, even what we do is fool-proof. but a reasonable proxy? hopefully

sean_szurko:
Game of life is a nice one

willklein:
one way to look at it: i had a place tell me they didn't care to look at my code, at all. i was awfully worried about how capable the team would be if i joined, and would have been vetting their tech chops far more than they were vetting mine

willklein:
it wasn't just code, the tech interview was really trivial

willklein:
<@U30MD5GQ7> i'd ask what their expectations for time is

willklein:
if it's higher than you're willing, see if they have a time efficient alternative

magento-not-magneto:
well I'd rather see what the tasks are

magento-not-magneto:
if they are absurd, then I can counter with "that's going to take my whole weekend"

willklein:
yeah, get both

magento-not-magneto:
only one task is template modification related

marc:
we have a series of technical interviews with live coding

willklein:
that's one of our options

marc:
we used to use technical challenges or code reviews

marc:
we had a bunch of false positives which was weird

marc:
almost like they had a ton of help

nathantech:
I suck at live coding.

nathantech:
too much anxiety

nathantech:
FizzBuzz

magento-not-magneto:
90% of time with Magento is spent finding the right file to work on

nathantech:
I turned down the job in the middle because they asked me FizzBuzz

nathantech:
one thing, I've learned. stick to interviewing with teams who are same age and race as you.

nathantech:
you aren't going to get hired if the whole team is Chinese and you are white. for example.

nathantech:
or you are 35, and team is 23.

nathantech:
there is no diversity unless it's large corporate job.

nathantech:
my chinese girlfriend kept looking for a job for 7 months. I told her, you need to interview with chinese teams. sure enough.

nathantech:
chinese team hired her.

magento-not-magneto:
maybe you should uhhh....... file a complaint.....

drewdahlman:
yeah… I am gonna say maybe you have an issue beyond that...

nathantech:
what do you mean?

nathantech:
last job I had. everyone was my age.

nathantech:
people hire people who are just like them

nathantech:
I don't get live coding interviews. for e.g. I just did a jquery autocomplete today

nathantech:
I had to spend half the day on github and stackoverflow. because everything has been changed in jquery.

nathantech:
I can't tell you how many times the job involved doing something completely different. than on the job spec.

nathantech:
live coding interviews are pointless. I can go in thinking I am doing Rails. then I spend all my time doing networking, JS etc...

nathantech:
best way to interview is have a conversation. and see how well a person can brainstorm, adapt, learn etc... not just recite code.

james.quigley:
Definitely want to know what kind of person someone is before your hire them

magento-not-magneto:
"This guy spent a lot of time on Google......"

nathantech:
I've hardly ever had problems with people on a team because of code skills.

magento-not-magneto:
"Why is he searching for "What is PHP?""

nathantech:
dude, half my problem is poor docs

nathantech:
I once spent half the day doing a jquery task. only to find the jquery version was not written on the doc.

nathantech:
I was on the wrong version. and it didn't tell me on the doc.

squaredbrett:
awesome

danhannigan:
Wait: `stick to interviewing with teams who are same age and race as you.` - what a way to discourage diversity. The total opposite of what this industry needs to do.

nathantech:
or how about spending half my day asking team lead. wtf does this sentence mean?

nathantech:
I am not saying diversity is bad. I am saying no one else follows it.

nathantech:
or you might waste a lot of time interviewing

nathantech:
I love diversity

nathantech:
after working in NYC. I was hoping for diversity. it was even more non diverse than FL

tim:
The ethnic makeup and age range of the people working someplace is so rarely on the job post though...

nathantech:
if you are a manager, you should interview all backgrounds.

danhannigan:
And if you're looking for work you should apply to all teams

nathantech:
but as the interviewee, I have to be realistic

tim:
What exactly do you do? Walk in, take a look at the crew and walk out because they don’t look like you?

nathantech:
all teams? idk about that. might starve.

danhannigan:
Blaming the company for not hiring you because you weren't the right gender/race/etc instead of your own lack of qualifications though?

nathantech:
hmm. who said I wasn't qualified?

danhannigan:
I mean if you're not hired: you weren't qualified

nathantech:
don't think I would get an interview if not

tim:
Your poor performance on your technical interview?

nathantech:
no way

nathantech:
no explanation most of the time

nathantech:
I've never had anyone tell me I wasn't qualified

danhannigan:
`you aren't going to get hired if the whole team is Chinese and you are white. for example.`

nathantech:
ya, chances are very slim

danhannigan:
Sorry this isn't very career-advice-ey.

tim:
So you just decided then that it was because you didn’t look like the team?

magento-not-magneto:
"excuse me, can you repick this interview team.....more uhh.....white people please?"

tim:
Really?

danhannigan:
I'm just a little heated about the casual racism

nathantech:
have you ever been to NYC?

danhannigan:
I have

sean_szurko:
Better email Trump, he will set it straight

nathantech:
k, then let me ask

nathantech:
why is everyone segregated in NYC?

nathantech:
for e.g.

nathantech:
I was turned down from an apartment because of my last name

nathantech:
realtor told me

magento-not-magneto:
that's illegal

sean_szurko:
It's tribalism, it is the same as in Chicago.

nathantech:
but it happens all the time

magento-not-magneto:
and you should have filed a suit

nathantech:
I don't have time to fight the world and sue everyone.

tim:
My white daughter lived in a heavily asian part of brooklyn before she moved to the hasidic neighborhood before the puerto rican one...

nathantech:
need to eat

marc:
What’s wrong with the name Tech?

nathantech:
I actually have a jewish last name. but realtor said I needed correct name to live in Silverstein's properties

nathantech:
even the entire realtor team was from Israel.

sean_szurko:
Wow

nathantech:
she flat out told me this

magento-not-magneto:
She's a flat out idiot

magento-not-magneto:
and could lose her license over that

magento-not-magneto:
as she should

nathantech:
ya, not very smart, Iagree

nathantech:
but then the startup Iworked at, did same thing

nathantech:
they thought Iwas jewish. so they hired me. entire team was jewish.

nathantech:
I am not saying it's right it all. but I have come across this over and over in real world. it sucks.

tim:
Oddly, I’ve almost never come across it.

magento-not-magneto:
nor have I

nathantech:
I think some places are better than others. midwest is good.

nathantech:
but the big cities are even more segregated than other areas. I found out.

sean_szurko:
It's the same in Chicago.

tim:
I’ve seen racism a couple times in my career and it was handled swiftly and harshly.

nathantech:
Chicago is diverse?

sean_szurko:
Very, but very segregated

nathantech:
Tampa is totally segregated where I am

nathantech:
I lived in the Spanish part. I like Salsa.

nathantech:
dancing.

sean_szurko:
Ya, can confirm Ft Lauderdale/Miami was the same when I lived down tehre

tim:
There’s a big difference between segregated neighborhoods and most companies hiring practices… even small companies.

nathantech:
if I am hiring. I would try to make sure there is a person from every walk of life on my team.

nathantech:
the different viewpoints make more more creative projects.

danhannigan:
But if you were looking for work you'd only look for teams of your same walk of life?

nathantech:
nope. I am just saying I don't get high hopes.

nathantech:
based on my experience.

nathantech:
I still try. But I wouldn't invest too much. like pay $$ to fly out.

nathantech:
or do 3 day weekend code homework.

nathantech:
most of the time, you don't even get an explanation.

drewdahlman:
dude. no one cares if you have to google in a code interview. that’s fine, google fu and the ability to problem solve and how you approach problems is what people are about.

nathantech:
really? that's not what I have found

nathantech:
like NYC. they want you to know it.

nathantech:
maybe Denver is more laidback

magento-not-magneto:
I Google the shit out of my work day

squaredbrett:
LOL

nathantech:
even if the docs are wrong?

squaredbrett:
JQuery

drewdahlman:
yes.

jtadmor:
you are describing a world i do not understand nathan

jtadmor:
and imo everything that youve said today is actively harmful to people seeking career advice

nathantech:
about bad docs?

jtadmor:
just everything

drewdahlman:
Some Career Advice - a few days ago you were complaining about extending yourself beyond Rails and now jQuery and it’s docs, I would say you might have some other issues other than you not being chinese or younger / older than the company / crew you’re applying for. As a Sr Developer ( I would assume from your stated income ) who in most cases is a leader of a team and someone who should be able to answer questions and lead a team of people I would take issue with hiring.

nathantech:
idk. I helped my girlfriend a ton, it worked for her.

nathantech:
people are just scared to be honest about how things are compared to how we can make things that way

nathantech:
can't really improve if we don't state the problem correctly.

jtadmor:
im not having an argument here, im just putting in my 2c so anyone reading has a heads up that most of the things you're saying are just counter-productive and bad

nathantech:
well cool. you probably just have different life experience.

nathantech:
I've lived in like 13 states

magento-not-magneto:
I think most people would come to that conclusion on their own <@U09QZ3BV3>

magento-not-magneto:
14 including Denver

magento-not-magneto:
?

nathantech:
yep

nathantech:
I was born in LA

nathantech:
international as it gets

nathantech:
midwest isn't diverse it all. so it hasn't faced same challenges as NYC, LA, Miami etc...

magento-not-magneto:
I was born in LA too, the real LA, Louisiana

nathantech:
hahaha, now that's one place I haven't been yet

nathantech:
the food looks amazing

magento-not-magneto:
the food ~looks~ is amazing

ryan.douglas:
Thought you were going for Lower Alabama there for a sec

nathantech:
would it be discrimination if a company didn't hire college grads?

nathantech:
say like, they are over qualified.

ryan.douglas:
Yes, but not actionable discrimination.

nathantech:
I ask. Because companies told me that. I am over qualified.

nathantech:
like down here in Tampa. one put it this way ... "I don't know anything that's on your resume."

nathantech:
because I spent all my time in NYC. and they use all the new stuff.

marc:
why are you applying for places that are clearly beneath you?

nathantech:
nothing is beneath me

nathantech:
I'd take a job pushing a broom if I had to

magento-not-magneto:
but you can't afford a shithole pushing a broom in Denver

nathantech:
I applied at Wendy's for a part time job

nathantech:
for extra hours, money

marc:
ok. well if you do that, why would you be surprised to be overqualified?

nathantech:
I mean the tech jobs

nathantech:
overr qualified for those

jtadmor:
have you thought about how you're coming across in interviews ifapplying to a job at wendy's seems like a reasonable course of action?

nathantech:
for weekend job

jtadmor:
or if nobody that doesnt talk and look like you seems to value your application?

nathantech:
I do fine on interviews. just not live coding.

jtadmor:
"i wont live code using your shitty technology. also this library has shit documentation, fuck them."

jtadmor:
"wat i didnt get the job?"

jtadmor:
"fucking chinamen, never should have applied in the first place"

jtadmor:
cheers mate

nathantech:
nah, I am talking about the guy who sent me a test with errors in it.

nathantech:
then proceeded to ridicule me for communications problems

drewdahlman:
I am having an issue communicating with you right now

magento-not-magneto:
Why are you taking on secondary jobs at Wendy's if you make bank?

magento-not-magneto:
I'd say the folks around here would pick up some contract work if they needed extra money, not flip burgers on weekends

nathantech:
its off and on

nathantech:
its either raining or drought

magento-not-magneto:
You realize if you pick up a 10,000 contract that takes you a month to do, doesn't mean you make 100,000 a year, right?

nathantech:
dude, I am talking like nsa cyber security stuff

nathantech:
its either raining or drought

magento-not-magneto:
so you are NSA

nathantech:
gov. contracts. off and on

magento-not-magneto:
is what you are saying

nathantech:
no

jtadmor:
when hes not doing wendy's

nathantech:
nsa doesn't work like that

jtadmor:
this guy is protecting our nation's security from the arabs and chinese

jtadmor:
who wont accept his applications

dstockto:
wtf is even happening in here?

nathantech:
so you are putting me down for wanting a weekend job at Wendy's?

marc:
:woowoo:  This channel is way off the rails :woowoo:

drewdahlman:
<#C040F1EV7|topic-random>

ryan.douglas:
I'm about to grab the third rail, tbh.

jtadmor:
yea sorry folks

jtadmor:
walks out

nathantech:
Iam out too, peace

justin:
He's gotta head to his side gig at Taco Bell.

justin:
NSA work is done

magento-not-magneto:
Resume says here that your last position was Wendy's but before that, was the NSA.

magento-not-magneto:
Did you mean the NSA cafeteria?

danhannigan:
Alright alright.

marc:
ok guys...

magento-not-magneto:
we're done here

justin:
#gifme alright alright alright

<http://i.imgur.com/LoUy4dK.gif>

danhannigan:
There we go haha. Consider that previous thread "locked"

marc:
:lock:

magento-not-magneto:
back to my original question that started this all, should I say something if the provided tasks take 8 hours?

magento-not-magneto:
or is that fair for a job I really want?

jtadmor:
it is work that youre allowed to take credit for (put on your github publically)?

jtadmor:
is this the last step in the process?

jtadmor:
is successful completion of task more or less 100% you get the job?

jtadmor:
any of those being "no" makes 8 hours pretty rough, imo

jtadmor:
if its "yes" to all i think its fair

mike.green:
How far into the interview process are you?

magento-not-magneto:
let's say it's a job I created for myself

marc:
also: how much do you want the gig?

magento-not-magneto:
they weren't hiring, but it's a need they've needed for a long time

marc:
if it’s really important to you, it’s worth it

magento-not-magneto:
if I get the WFH option that I'm pushing for, it's totally worth it

magento-not-magneto:
it's in NE Denver

magento-not-magneto:
I70 cooridor

magento-not-magneto:
I'll be in rastle cock

jtadmor:
you'll look back on 8 hours as very little investment for a life upgrade

magento-not-magneto:
yeah I suppose. I've just never been requested to do work for an interview process

magento-not-magneto:
like most of you have

mike.green:
Still unclear - is it work they need done, or is it example type work?

magento-not-magneto:
Probably example type work

magento-not-magneto:
"here are some tasks we WOULD need done. Let's see how you handle them."

magento-not-magneto:
type work

justin:
I'd probably do it if the opportunity is something you want

mike.green:
Did they say take 8 hours or is that what you think it should be?

magento-not-magneto:
<@U30MD5GQ7|magento-not-magneto> uploaded a file: <https://denver-devs.slack.com/files/magento-not-magneto/F4320NBF0/careeradvice.jpg|CAREERADVICE.jpg>

magento-not-magneto:
no time estimate, I just know "template modifications" can take a while

magento-not-magneto:
considering I don't know what theme they are using, what extensions they have installed, etc.

mike.green:
I feel you will spend 4 hours trying to figure out what you'd usually be expected to be given by an existing dev or a week or two of getting up to speed. But I know no magento

mike.green:
magneto. or whatever it is :slightly_smiling_face:

helpdesk:
woah woah

helpdesk:
thread unlocked

helpdesk:
i didn't get to participate

helpdesk:
<@U052FN0FA|helpdesk> uploaded a file: <https://denver-devs.slack.com/files/helpdesk/F429F73PV/pasted_image_at_2017_02_07_04_10_pm.png|Pasted image at 2017-02-07, 4:10 PM>

helpdesk:
^lmao

magento-not-magneto:
we can't discuss this topic any longer <@U052FN0FA>

helpdesk:
This conversation

helpdesk:
<http://mashable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/mind-blown.gif>

helpdesk:
<@U052FN0FA|helpdesk> uploaded a file: <https://denver-devs.slack.com/files/helpdesk/F429GBWQK/pasted_image_at_2017_02_07_04_13_pm.png|Pasted image at 2017-02-07, 4:13 PM>

magento-not-magneto:
My reverse facial recognition says you aren't in Denver and you aren't a girl.

helpdesk:
<@U052FN0FA|helpdesk> uploaded a file: <https://denver-devs.slack.com/files/helpdesk/F41LXQCQZ/pasted_image_at_2017_02_07_04_13_pm.png|Pasted image at 2017-02-07, 4:13 PM>

helpdesk:
Sorry can we just have a retrospective here?

drewdahlman:
#topic-postmortem

justin:
Only if we revisit him telling me that facial recognition disproved that I work in Iowa

justin:
Yeah. My side gig at Good Times had to let me go... guess I'll have to drive my Ferrari over to Tokyo Joes to see if they're hiring white people.

justin:
Did you really just do "where all the ladies at?"

nalapro:
I lol'd

nathantech:
ya, we need more diversity

marc:
there are quite a few women here, they’re just not participating in whatever this is

nathantech:
hey, I shut up. you peeps keep egging it on.

sean_szurko:
This has been by far the best entertainment of the day for me

dmackinn:
Ooooof. Has "where are all the women at" ever actually worked?

nathantech:
at least <@U3K15263W> thinks it funny

nathantech:
nah dude, I just got a bunch of DM's of what people are really thinking

nathantech:
so I'll shut up. the room is yours.

nathantech:
<@U052FN0FA> go for it. since you are in charge

nathantech:
lets hear your thoughts

helpdesk:
I prefer yours

danhannigan:
I think it's more-so that we like to keep channels organized, unless it's in -random in which case go wild. 

But more-so we tried to lock the thread because it was dissolving to insults and jabs. Not exactly a good community vibe.

nathantech:
you really want to know what I think?

helpdesk:
I want lulz

drewdahlman:
:watchin:

nathantech:
k, I see snowflakes

nathantech:
betas

nathantech:
beta fish

jtadmor:
:snowflake:

jtadmor:
:tropical_fish:

nathantech:
I am looking at my fish aquarium right now. hoping for snow.

magento-not-magneto:
let's just temp random this channel. No one is looking for career advice at 4:30

magento-not-magneto:
4:00 they were, me

nathantech:
I have a question about career advice

nathantech:
will I make any money building Magento sites or wordpress blogs?

nathantech:
or here is one. why would I lie about where I work in a chat room? haha

james.quigley:
<@U040HN7HC> is this an emoji that we have? if not, can it be?

drewdahlman:
it is `:watchin:`

magento-not-magneto:
Magento will break you

james.quigley:
:pray:

james.quigley:
:watchin:

nathantech:
I also prefer Red Fedoras. Not other ones.

nathantech:
more like Red Hats

nathantech:
Magento is a pile of PHP junk just like Wordpress

magento-not-magneto:
sticks and stones make break my bones, but burgers won't flip themselves at Wendy's

nathantech:
no, but this automated startup will. and fire everyone.

nathantech:
so actually, ya, they will flip auto pilot soon

nathantech:
you want to see the photo of my dusting robot?

justin:
Oh for the love of all that's holy... YES

willklein:
wait.. i feel like groundhog day

nathantech:
let me get it

james.quigley:
<http://i.imgur.com/gUnJVZ4.jpg>

nathantech:
<@U3XGBUQUR|nathantech> uploaded a file: <https://denver-devs.slack.com/files/nathantech/F42E1TE04/robot.png|Slack for Android Upload>

nathantech:
I was just trying to be down to earth with the wendys comment. you peeps are so stuck up.

magento-not-magneto:
I built an ecommerce site, what do you guys think

magento-not-magneto:
<https://www.amazon.com/>

nathantech:
you use Magento to build that?

marc:
how on earth is this BS worth any of your time, any of you?

nathantech:
I used make block with a 6 axis arm. and arduino shield with rasp pi. for the python open CV.

magento-not-magneto:
I'm trying to kill 20 minutes

magento-not-magneto:
and don't want to start a new project

danhannigan:
Take it to random

danhannigan:
That's all I'm asking

nathantech:
<@U052FN0FA> told me to

danhannigan:
Take it on over to random and have a hay-day

ryan.douglas:
Wait. This isn't random? Where am I?

nathantech:
k, I will post it in random

magento-not-magneto:
<@U3XGBUQUR> doesn't know how to change to another topic

danhannigan:
I'm going to archive this channel for a bit.

magento-not-magneto:
can an admin move him?

nathantech:
<@U052FN0FA> is the admin

justin:
This channel should be archived FOREVER

justin:
This is denver devs history

danhannigan:
hahah

marc:
Dan is the real admin

nathantech:
what? for real?

willklein:
shhhhhh

marc:
yes. the group owner

nathantech:
it doesn't say it on his profile

danhannigan:
I try to not brag :slightly_smiling_face:

nathantech:
ahhh I see it now

helpdesk:
My profile says nothing about me being an admin

danhannigan:
But yes, I'm the owner of the group. With multiple admins around helping me

danhannigan:
So yeah, shuffle on over to random please.