gistfile1.txt

Everything (mostly) with leonardchin is a translation from the talk:

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[00:33] <n0kada> 鳥取の左から
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[00:33] <leonardchin> works at NaCL & Rakuten
[00:33] <leonardchin> So, Change
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[00:33] <leonardchin> This year, lots of participants from overseas!
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[00:33] <leonardchin> Looking at the world map outside
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[00:33] <@kakutani> がんばって宣伝しました!!
[00:33] <leonardchin> people from lots of countries this year
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[00:34] <leonardchin> from Africa, Russia, and of course Japan and America
[00:34] <@kakutani> オレオレ!
[00:34] <n0kada> ガンダムのついでに
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[00:34] <leonardchin> I'm sure it is due to kakutani's advertising at conferences overseas
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[00:34] <leonardchin> but, it isn't just the ruby community that has changed, but also ruby itself
[00:34] <leonardchin> so
[00:34] <leonardchin> first
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[00:34] <leonardchin> anyway, i know ruby from the very first vesion
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[00:34] <leonardchin> of course
[00:34] <leonardchin> but it turns out that Shugo Maeda alrready had the same idea
[00:35] <leonardchin> so i had to think of something eles
[00:35] <leonardchin> so what about 1.9
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[00:35] <leonardchin> well, Yugui already...
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[00:35] <erukiti> ねたかぶり
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[00:35] <leonardchin> Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to hear it all.
[00:35] <leonardchin> SO
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[00:35] <leonardchin> What can I do?
[00:35] <sorah> wwwww
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[00:35] <leonardchin> I decided to do something that is not technical this time
[00:35] <leonardchin> What is a compass?
[00:36] <leonardchin> its just a magnet which only knows the directieon of North
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[00:36] <leonardchin> Rethinking where we ar e coming from
[00:36] <leonardchin> I only thought of this one night ;)
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[00:36] <leonardchin> So where are we know?
[00:36] <leonardchin> Japan, of course
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[00:36] <leonardchin> its also the 21st century
[00:36] <leonardchin> since the last 10 years
[00:36] <leonardchin> but the vision of the 21st century was quite different
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[00:36] <leonardchin> flying cars, no enegry problems etc
[00:37] <leonardchin> but the reality is much darker
[00:37] <leonardchin> with financial crises and so on
[00:37] <leonardchin> but i haven't really felt that
[00:37] <leonardchin> i think that this is actually the glden age of progrmming
[00:37] <leonardchin> I'm quite an old programmer
[00:37] <leonardchin> I know a lot about programming from the 80s and 90s
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[00:37] <leonardchin> and they wernt very bright times
[00:37] <leonardchin> why?
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[00:37] <leonardchin> wel, computers werent that powerful
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[00:38] <leonardchin> or there were cases where features were decided by marketing
[00:38] <leonardchin> but disappeared 5 years later
[00:38] <leonardchin> compared to then
[00:38] <leonardchin> these days
[00:38] <leonardchin> fantastic programming technnologies
[00:38] <leonardchin> like ruby
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[00:38] <leonardchin> have appeared
[00:38] <leonardchin> well, there was always lisp
[00:38] <leonardchin> i like lisp
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[00:38] <leonardchin> (except for some parts)
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[00:39] <leonardchin> but the problem with lisp was not the language, but the times it appeared
[00:39] <leonardchin> in the mid-90s
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[00:39] <leonardchin> they were the dark ages
[00:39] <leonardchin> but with the 21st century, people started actually experimenting with languages that weren't a pile of crap
[00:39] <leonardchin> where they could write things cleanly and powerfully
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[00:40] <leonardchin> So we are finally in an age where tech is evaluated on its merits, and not by more human circumstances (like marketing)
[00:40] <leonardchin> so where do I stand?
[00:40] <leonardchin> well i'm the creator of ruby
[00:40] <leonardchin> it's great
[00:40] <@kakutani> 名札わすれないでください!!!!
[00:40] <leonardchin> i can sleep in, and forget my name tag, and still get let in!
[00:40] <sorah> 顔パスwwww
[00:40] <t_hase_> でも、すごいなぁ。。
[00:41] <leonardchin> Just by "face" recognition
[00:41] <leonardchin> But I'm also just a language geek
[00:41] <leonardchin> I love all kinds of languages
[00:41] <sorah> 全手動顔認証
[00:41] <leonardchin> even if they start with 'P'
[00:41] <takano64> PH...
[00:41] <leonardchin> On my blog
[00:41] <leonardchin> which I haven't really written much lately
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[00:41] <leonardchin> I also like COBOL
[00:41] <leonardchin> but don't write it
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[00:41] <leonardchin> I'm also a programmer
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[00:42] <leonardchin> so I like things like debugging and writing code
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[00:42] <leonardchin> In HS I wanted to program, but didn't have a computer to do so
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[00:42] <leonardchin> when I got into university, it was like paradise because I could program
[00:42] <leonardchin> I think thats where it all starts
[00:42] <leonardchin> As for my children
[00:42] <leonardchin> if they want to program, i'd love to teach them
[00:42] <leonardchin> but if they don't have interest, i'm not going to force it on them
[00:43] <leonardchin> (otherwise i'd be creating some sort of montster...)
[00:43] <leonardchin> anyway
[00:43] <leonardchin> So in school
[00:43] <sorah> 俺とか、いつプログラミングに興味持ったのか忘れてる（今中1）
[00:43] <leonardchin> my favorite subject was Kokugo (Japanese)
[00:43] <leonardchin> I really didn't like math
[00:43] <leonardchin> So I'm also a writer
[00:43] <kssddy> >sorah プログラミングに興味を持って生まれてきたとか
[00:43] <leonardchin> THis is a book I wrote recently
[00:44] <n0kada> ホスト乙
[00:44] <leonardchin> Matsumoto Yukihiro
[00:44] <leonardchin> 's
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[00:44] <sorah> w
[00:44] <leonardchin> "World of Code"
[00:44] <nigoju> ホスト本ｗ
[00:44] <leonardchin> looks like a buisness book ;)_
[00:44] <leonardchin> Please buy it
[00:44] <leonardchin> There are lots bugs too, which I encourage you to search
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[00:44] <takano64> Cool
[00:44] <sorah> 俺最初にTTSNeo触れたんだけど、ほとんどプログラミングというよりGUI作ってたから。小4に本格的に始めたんだが・・
[00:44] <leonardchin> Maybe the reason why i don't blog much is because of twitter
[00:44] <kssddy> Twitterのせいで
[00:44] <sorah> なんで始めたのか忘れた
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[00:44] <leonardchin> though i didn't manage to get the @matz account
[00:44] <leonardchin> so
[00:45] <leonardchin> where are we going?
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[00:45] <Misho_> Twitterならしかたがない
[00:45] <leonardchin> So what attitude do we take? What attitude does ruby encourage?
[00:45] <leonardchin> Firstly, gratitude
[00:45] <manveru> matz is at @yukihiro_matz instead
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[00:45] <leonardchin> (btw, i dont know the guy in the picture)
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[00:45] <kssddy> 888888
[00:45] <leonardchin> Well, I got this award from the government
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[00:45] <leonardchin> from some minister
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[00:46] <n0kada> サイズ合うのか
[00:46] <leonardchin> At the ceremony, my boss told me to wear a jacket
[00:46] <leonardchin> so I did, though it wasn't mine
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[00:46] <leonardchin> Anyway, this award was for the creation of ruby
[00:46] <leonardchin> but really, I couldn't have made Ruby without the contribution and help of others
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[00:47] <leonardchin> bug reports, users, contributions, ideas, all added to the whole that is Ruby
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[00:47] <leonardchin> I'm not afraid to shoulder the blame for problems in Ruby, but I think its important to be thankful of everyone who has helped with Ruby
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[00:47] <leonardchin> so when I get awards, I want to say that it is shared with everyone else
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[00:47] <leonardchin> but don't except me to buy dinner for you out of thanks ;)
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[00:48] <leonardchin> Anyway, sour grapes
[00:48] <leonardchin> I'm sure you've heard of this fable by Aesop
[00:48] <leonardchin> WHen I look at other languages, I always love to make complaints
[00:49] <leonardchin> BUt as the Ruby creator, people from that community think that it is then the stance of Ruby
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[00:49] <leonardchin> to be against other languages
[00:49] <leonardchin> but really, it is just a matter of my own taste
[00:49] <leonardchin> oops
[00:50] <nigoju> 合理的だといいだすのはバグ
[00:50] <leonardchin> i accidentally launched firefox maybe?
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[00:50] <kssddy> 他言語の呪い？
[00:50] <sorah> ust切れた？
[00:50] <tokada> ustきれた
[00:50] <t_hase_> ？？
[00:50] <sorah> 復活
[00:50] <leonardchin> Turning your back on the truth
[00:50] <Misho_> 何もかもおわた
[00:51] <leonardchin> And self justification
[00:51] <Misho_> 移動した
[00:51] <leonardchin> I admit that ruby has lots of faults
[00:51] <leonardchin> And although it takes a long time to fix them, they will get fixed
[00:51] <leonardchin> Windows is Broken!
[00:52] <leonardchin> I don't use Windows, but that isn't want I want to talk about here
[00:52] <leonardchin> This is something from the Pragmatic Programmer
[00:52] <sorah> Broken Windows...
[00:52] <sorah> 複数の割れた窓
[00:52] <leonardchin> If you leave windows broken, bad things will continue to happen, and the city will eventually turn into a slum
[00:52] <leonardchin> BUt if you clean them up, things will get better.
[00:53] <leonardchin> I hear that this is what happened in NY (though i don't know if its true)
[00:53] <leonardchin> but anyway
[00:53] <leonardchin> the same applies to ruby and programming languages
[00:53] <leonardchin> For open source software
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[00:53] <leonardchin> one of the main merits is that it is a "living" organism
[00:53] <leonardchin> Software that doesn't grow just isn't interesting
[00:53] <leonardchin> there is a pov that software that doesn't change is stable
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[00:54] <leonardchin> but its also true that softaware can also go slow
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[00:54] <unak1> バグの報告される速度>>>>>>>>>>>>>>越えられない壁>>>>>>>>>>>>>バグを直す速度
[00:54] <leonardchin> Anyway, I do believe that we need to keep on fixing broken windows
[00:54] <tmtm_> 直したつもりが割っていたとか
[00:54] <leonardchin> There's only3-4 of us fixing all the bugs, and we really can't keep up ;)
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[00:54] <leonardchin> bug reports come in way faster than bug fixes
[00:54] <leonardchin> Anyway
[00:55] <leonardchin> My dad used to give me these knives
[00:55] <leonardchin> to sharpen pencils
[00:55] <leonardchin> when i was a kid
[00:55] <Misho_> 『コードの世界』のバグも直してかないと……
[00:55] <leonardchin> and just took it to school without a problem
[00:55] <leonardchin> but, these days, using something like this would be unimaginable
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[00:55] <leonardchin> anyway, noone stabbed anyway, though they might have cut their finger once or twice sometimes
[00:56] <leonardchin> sure, knives can be dangerous
[00:56] <leonardchin> you can hurt yourself with sharp tools
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[00:56] <leonardchin> but I think there is great merit in properly learning how to use tools
[00:56] <leonardchin> This may be a small knife
[00:56] <leonardchin> but if you stabbed someone, it would definitely hurt them
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[00:56] <leonardchin> it is true that it is dangerous
[00:57] <leonardchin> but then it is a matter of trust
[00:57] <leonardchin> they used to trust that you, the person carrying the knife , was safe
[00:57] <leonardchin> anyway
[00:57] <leonardchin> so, the story is that most of the programmers in the world are below average
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[00:57] <leonardchin> hence deathmarches
[00:57] <leonardchin> so the idea is that you give them something that they won't hurt themselves with
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[00:58] <unak1> バカは常に想像の斜め上を行く
[00:58] <leonardchin> it is often said that we always underestimate how stupid stupid people can be
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[00:58] <leonardchin> I think that, giving powerful people tools that could be dangerous, also teaches the lesson of using tools safely
[00:58] <n0kada> バグは常に(ryと空目
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[00:59] <leonardchin> Responsibilty
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[00:59] <leonardchin> Ruby was originally a tool i made just for myself
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[00:59] <yamashiro_> IRCの画面がが
[01:00] <leonardchin> so I din't want to restrict myself, but rather create a tool in which i could do things comfortably and with least effort
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[01:00] <@tdtds> test
[01:00] <tmtm_> IRC画面止まってますね
[01:00] <unak1> たぶんIRC画面のマシンがネットワーク切れてる
[01:00] <leonardchin> anyway, i always believed that I myself was the most untrustworthy programmer
[01:01] == tokada [i=3b931d60@gateway/web/freenode/x-90cc9c9e5838ea1d] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
[01:01] <@darashi> どこのIRC画面でしょうか？
[01:01] <leonardchin> yet i still believe in not restricting myself
[01:01] <leonardchin> darashi: main hall
[01:01] <@darashi> leonardchin: thx
[01:01] <znz_j> 会場に出てるIRC画面
[01:01] <leonardchin> 現在対応中っぽい
[01:01] <unak1> がんばれ＞すたっふ
[01:01] <ujihisa> i++を提案 -> Matzが5分でreject
[01:01] <rubykaigiscr> teat
[01:02] <leonardchin> I try not to be a ruthless dictator
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[01:02] == htada [i=cad16a05@gateway/web/freenode/x-869d16d961de0219] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
[01:02] <n0kada> ただしイケメン(good looking name)に限る
[01:02] <leonardchin> Though recently I was threatened
[01:02] <ujihisa> イケてるメンバー
[01:02] <unak1> 原著作者を追放できるのはrubyコミュニティだけ!
[01:02] <kaoru6> 午前中の話: 「不満はパッチに変えてください」
[01:02] <leonardchin> that I was too dangerous and they would take away my commit rights to Ruby ;)
[01:02] <tmtm_> そろそろ追放されるレベル？
[01:02] == saicologic [i=cad16a05@gateway/web/freenode/x-39cb7f07de35ec4d] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
[01:02] <leonardchin> So, back to the story
[01:02] <n0kada> なんどか
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[01:02] <leonardchin> these are the tools i use
[01:02] <sugamasao> お、画面ふっかつ？
[01:03] <@tdtds> aaa
[01:03] <leonardchin> emacs, subversion, stacked git
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[01:03] <tmtm_> 直った？
[01:03] <@darashi> 画面戻しました、ありがとうございました
[01:03] <leonardchin> I like the tools that I am most comfortable with
[01:03] <ujihisa> hi
[01:03] <leonardchin> btw, I don't know how to tag versions
[01:03] <@darashi> > tmtm_, unak1
[01:03] <tmtm_> スタッフ++
[01:03] <leonardchin> its been a problem for me since the days of cvs
[01:03] <unak1> すたっふ+=1
[01:03] <ujihisa> スタッフ++
[01:03] <leonardchin> i always rely on others :;)
[01:03] == arihh [i=cad16a05@gateway/web/freenode/x-666eaa488dfdcc11] has joined #rubykaigi1
[01:03] <leonardchin> But lately, i've been using stacked git
[01:03] <june29> nice
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[01:04] <leonardchin> for the  last 2 years actually
[01:04] <leonardchin> so what is stacked git?
[01:04] <leonardchin> It uses git as a backend
[01:04] <leonardchin> to a stack of patches
[01:04] <tmtm_> あれ？まだダメ？
[01:04] <leonardchin> i like it because it is easy to understand
[01:04] <@darashi> tmtm_: およよ
[01:04] <ujihisa> およよ
[01:04] <rubykaigiscr3_> oyoyo
[01:04] <arihh> およよ
[01:04] <@darashi> 対応します
[01:04] <unak1> よよお
[01:05] <leonardchin> i basically use it offline with svn
[01:05] <leonardchin> its quite similar to quilt
[01:05] == benschwarz [i=cad16a05@gateway/web/freenode/x-46027d69d09c738d] has joined #rubykaigi1
[01:05] <leonardchin> but i'm not too familiar with typical features of git like rebase
[01:05] <leonardchin> stacked git has one fault though: its written in python
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[01:05] <leonardchin> right now i have 27 unreleased stacks
[01:05] <unak1> matzにもパッチ袋が!
[01:05] <ujihisa> ※未公開画像
[01:05] <leonardchin> mostly experimental
[01:05] <leonardchin> here i'd like to introduce a few of them
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[01:06] <Misho_> 未公開と聞いて
[01:06] <leonardchin> here's one
[01:06] <leonardchin> complex  literal
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[01:06] <leonardchin> - introduce complex literal (numbers)
[01:06] <ujihisa> 複素数リテラルを15分で実装
[01:06] <n0kada> suffixだったら簡単だよな
[01:06] <tmtm_> スタッフ乙
[01:06] <n0kada> 乙
[01:06] <leonardchin> for example 1.2 + 4i
[01:06] <Misho_> Complex良いなぁ
[01:06] <leonardchin> where i is root of -1
[01:07] <ujihisa> jにも対応を!
[01:07] <leonardchin> it has no problems with backwards compatibility
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[01:07] <leonardchin> and i have the authorization of yugui
[01:07] <leonardchin> but, to tell you to the truth
[01:07] <leonardchin> i don't use complex numbers much
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[01:07] <leonardchin> i've only used them... when writing tests for this feature
[01:07] <n0kada> Rational literalは?
[01:07] <leonardchin> but maybe someone would be happy with it
[01:07] <leonardchin> next
[01:07] <leonardchin> true division
[01:08] <leonardchin> 1/2 returns a rational 1/2
[01:08] <leonardchin> (fraction)
[01:08] <n0kada> やはりそうきたか
[01:08] <Misho_> Complex良いけどわり算とか複雑なことになりそう
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[01:08] <leonardchin> it also converts things like 2/1 to a normal integer, like 2
[01:08] <unak1> これが予定されてるからRationalリテラルはいらないのだ。
[01:08] <leonardchin> oop
[01:08] <leonardchin> s
[01:08] <leonardchin> i mean, it requires ;you to fix things like 2/1 and convert to 2
[01:08] <leonardchin> here's a larger one
[01:08] <leonardchin> do you know to_a and to_ary?
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[01:09] <ujihisa> to_aとto_aryはいま一番ホットな話題
[01:09] <leonardchin> implicit and explicit array conversion
[01:09] <n0kada> 逆じゃね?
[01:09] <unak1> 逆の方がいいんじゃね?
[01:09] <leonardchin> i'm thinking of changing the api
[01:09] <n0kada> asが暗黙
[01:09] <leonardchin> explicit as as_XXX
[01:09] <leonardchin> implicit as to_XXX
[01:09] <leonardchin> oops
[01:09]  * wycats cheers
[01:09] <Misho_> どうちがうんだっけ……
[01:09] <unak1> また会場IRC画面とまった orz
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[01:10] <leonardchin>  # i got it right i think ;)
[01:10] <tmtm_> 止まってますね
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[01:10] <n0kada> implicitは引数の自動変換に使われる
[01:10] <leonardchin> this is a pretty big patch, requiring lots of rewriting and test rewriting
[01:10] <leonardchin> not sure if its a good idea, so currently its just sitting around gathering dust
[01:10] <manveru> implicit is as_, explicit is to_
[01:10] <tmtm_> to_XXX じゃなくてもっと長い名前でいいんじゃないかなぁ
[01:10] <leonardchin> manveru: no, its the other way around
[01:11] <tmtm_> あ、動いた
[01:11] <unak1> 明示的変換は普通のプログラマが使っている。暗黙の変換はライブラリが内部で使うだけ ∴互換性的にはどっちか変えるなら暗黙の変換の方
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[01:11] <leonardchin> or were the slides wrong?
[01:11] <leonardchin> hm
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[01:11] <leonardchin> oh well
[01:11] <eban> 数学だらけだよ！
[01:11] == takano64 [i=cad16a05@gateway/web/freenode/x-f9c243545aeeee51] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
[01:11] <manveru> nvm now :)
[01:11] <leonardchin> math_error_check
[01:11] <leonardchin> throw exceptions from Math expressions
[01:11] <leonardchin> don't return NaN
[01:11] <leonardchin> not sure about a few details though
[01:12] <leonardchin> here's some non-math stacks
[01:12] <leonardchin> nloop
[01:12] <leonardchin> multiple loops
[01:12] <ujihisa> nloop(3, 3, 3) {|i, j, k| p [i, j, j] }
[01:12] <n0kada> eneloop メソッド
[01:12] <leonardchin> e.g. loop 3 things at a time
[01:12] <Misho_> 文字周り終わったから次は数学だろう
[01:12] <leonardchin> not sure if its very useful ;)
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[01:12] <lrz> nice idea :)
[01:12] <leonardchin> so its just gathering dust
[01:12] <unak1> 終わってないよ
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[01:13] <leonardchin> i got a 5% improvement on some tests, an though "oh, cool" but left it at that
[01:13] <n0kada> 動いたり止まったりだな
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[01:13] <unak1> 止まったり動かなかったり
[01:13] <Misho_> nloopは美しい。
[01:13] <shyouhei> 美しいのか?
[01:13] <leonardchin> is this a bug?
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[01:13] <tmtm_> Array#[]は自動拡張だから？
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[01:13] <leonardchin> this might actually be added to 1.9
[01:14] <leonardchin> there's a few more left ;) hoep your'e not falling asleep
[01:14] <naruse> バグかなぁ
[01:14] <unak1> ちなみにさっきの例は、a[4]だと例外。
[01:14] <leonardchin> gc for symbols
[01:14] <leonardchin> but will mean gc slows down
[01:14] <naruse> ちょっと前はa[4]もとおっちゃってたんだな
[01:14] <leonardchin> might mean repeated assignment of symbols
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[01:15] <leonardchin> haven't finished testing it though
[01:15] <leonardchin> still need to writemore tests
[01:15] <@darashi> 会場のirc機への接続に802.11g 6chを使っています、ch7に3台端末があるようなので衝突している可能性はないでしょうかねい
[01:15] <leonardchin> and could be kind of wasteful/ineffcient
[01:15] <leonardchin> skip the next one because its already public
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[01:15] <leonardchin> private_ivar
[01:16] <leonardchin> i've been mulling over this for a few years
[01:16] <leonardchin> instance variables not shared with superclass
[01:16] <leonardchin> make it private by calling it @_foo
[01:16] <leonardchin> kind of ugly though
[01:16] <n0kada> @.foo
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[01:16] <leonardchin> but maybe the reverse would be preferable
[01:17] <leonardchin> but i'm afraid @_foo could break existing programs
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[01:17] <leonardchin> more people using _xxx than I expected
[01:17] <Misho_> nloopがあると行列とかテンソルの走査がとても書きやすくなるけど、loop2つ書くことが必要な場合もあるからなぁ
[01:17] <@darashi> 7chの端末はNDSっぽい
[01:17] <leonardchin> also kind of thinking that default should be class local variables, but that would break way too much
[01:17] <leonardchin> next
[01:17] <@darashi> 関係ないかもしれませんが
[01:17] <n0kada> Nintendo DS?
[01:18] <leonardchin> slowly getting to the least useful stuff
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[01:18] <leonardchin> this one has been sitting around for 2years
[01:18] <leonardchin> making variables assigned with := block local
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[01:18] <joshbuddy> leonardchin: if he has a sense of drama, perhaps the best will be last?
[01:18] <@darashi> n0kada: OUIでルックアップするとNintendoのようです
[01:18] <leonardchin> this means that you don't need to use block parameters
[01:18] <leonardchin> no need for |x|
[01:18] <nigoju> do |x;y|
[01:19] <leonardchin> maybe it would make code more beautiful ;)
[01:19] <leonardchin> ah, still more left to go
[01:19] <leonardchin> module_as_trait
[01:19] <leonardchin> traits are similar to modules
[01:19] <leonardchin> create new modules by adding module to module
[01:19] <leonardchin> problems with clasing method names
[01:19] <wycats> you can implement this in Ruby now :)
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[01:20] <n0kada> indeed
[01:20] <drbrain_kaigi> leonardchin: clashing?
[01:20] <leonardchin> clashing, yeah
[01:20] <leonardchin> in the case of adding, clashing classes would result in an error
[01:20] <nigoju> module | module は和集合？
[01:20] <leonardchin> its just a copy operation
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[01:20] <drry> 会場IRCブルー
[01:20] <leonardchin> will also define subtraction
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[01:20] <leonardchin> you can remove symbols from a module (i.e. method removal)
[01:20] <tmtm_> スタッフ頑張ってます
[01:21] <leonardchin> possibly useful for fixing certain bugs with overriden methods
[01:21] <leonardchin> we're getting wierder as we go deeper
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[01:22] <leonardchin> open class override
[01:22] <leonardchin> if you override, old method is left around
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[01:22] <leonardchin> and if you use super, yoyu can call the old method
[01:22] <leonardchin> useful for implementing aspect oriented programming
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[01:22] <leonardchin> but pretty large compatibility implications
[01:22] <leonardchin> keyword arguments
[01:22] <leonardchin> at the moment, it is just the grammar
[01:23] <leonardchin> no implementation
[01:23] <leonardchin> i doubt it will ever appear in the 1.9 series
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[01:23] <leonardchin> local instance scope
[01:23] <leonardchin> ruby has all kinds of scope problems
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[01:23] <enebo> please no lvar propagate :)
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[01:24] <leonardchin> this isn't a finished patch
[01:24] <tmtm_> おー、これはきもい
[01:24] <wycats> enebo: I like it ;)
[01:24] <leonardchin> what it does is just increase the scope
[01:24] <Misho_> なにこれこわい
[01:24] <leonardchin> i came up with it sitting in an Onsen
[01:24] <unak1> えっ
[01:24] <wycats> enebo: I don't see why that would be hard to implement
[01:24] <macks_> きもちわるい
[01:24] <leonardchin> "oh, this would be so cool!"
[01:24] <leonardchin> but then Sasada Koichi said "thats way too ugly"
[01:24] <kssddy> スコープを勝手に広げる
[01:24] <enebo> wycats: It can arbitrarily gow local variable scope
[01:24] <nigoju> ブロックローカル宣言と重ねるとか！
[01:24] <leonardchin> I thought I was a genius when I came up with it, but now, not so much ;)
[01:25] <wycats> but only lvars that you can see at compile time
[01:25] == arihh [i=cad16a05@gateway/web/freenode/x-666eaa488dfdcc11] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
[01:25] <leonardchin> So these are a few of my incomplete patches
[01:25] <wycats> see lvar in block scope -- add it to local table
[01:25] <leonardchin> And a snapshot of what I work on during the day
[01:25] <binary42> enebo: I think that's a parse time operation.
[01:25] == arihh [i=cad16a05@gateway/web/freenode/x-c1c5c66e34c2b20c] has joined #rubykaigi1
[01:25] <leonardchin> Anyway, to wrap it up
[01:25] <enebo> ah not so bad so long as executed procs/lambdas cannot do it
[01:25] <leonardchin> Ruby is fair
[01:26] <wycats> enebo: this is a lexical thing
[01:26] <leonardchin> Be responsible
[01:26] == kssddy has changed nick to hummingkid
[01:26] <wycats> problem
[01:26] <leonardchin> and ruby trusts you to be responsible
[01:26] <wycats> It solves the var x = nil; stuff { x = y }; x
[01:26] <leonardchin> as adults ;)
[01:26] <enebo> wycats: I remove my reservation then....and it is not so hard to implement
[01:26] <@kakutani> ミホw
[01:26] <tmtm_> 足を撃ちたければどうぞw
[01:26] <leonardchin> trust
[01:26] <wycats> and has no other obvious implications
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[01:26] <enebo> but it will be bigger scope
[01:26] <leonardchin> oh, i missed gratitude
[01:26] <wycats> I actually will lobby for this ;)
[01:26] <unak1> 自分の足も撃てないような言語が使えるかッ!
[01:26] <wycats> enebo: it just changes the rules for how to determine the lvars
[01:26] <leonardchin> Also, its important to keep on working at it
[01:26] <tmtm_> unak1++
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[01:26] <leonardchin> wycats: its about automatically extending scope beyond the block
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[01:26] <leonardchin> for local vars
[01:27] <wycats> leonardchin: I know
[01:27] <leonardchin> Ruby is agile
[01:27] == unak1 has changed nick to unak2
[01:27] <wycats> it's another case where the lexical scoping rules are unexpected due to blocks
[01:27] <leonardchin> But also Fragile
[01:27] == m_kawato [i=cad16a05@gateway/web/freenode/x-adbeb6cc4566b1fd] has joined #rubykaigi1
[01:27] <leonardchin> I want to continute to be able to listen to all your input :)
[01:27] <leonardchin> thank you
[01:27] <unak2> 8888888888
[01:27] <tmtm_> 8888888
[01:27] <leonardchin> Question time?
[01:27] <enebo> wycats: this would mean only truly local block vars would be declared in block param decl
[01:27] <znz_j> -☆- 888 -☆-
[01:27] <hummingkid> 88888888
[01:27] <leonardchin> Q/A time
[01:27] == zblutphon [[email protected]] has left #rubykaigi1 []
[01:27] <hajimepg> 88888
[01:28] <drbrain_kaigi> enebo: wycats: #rubykaigi, please
[01:28] <leonardchin> not much time left though
[01:28] <eban> 8888
[01:28] <n0kada> -★- 8888 -★-
[01:28] <arihh> 88888888
[01:28] <lrz> leonardchin: thanks a lot for the translation :)
[01:28] <unak2> なんで明示的変換メソッドの方を変えようと思ったの?
[01:28] <joshbuddy> leonardchin: 888888
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[01:28] <leonardchin> lrz: no problem
[01:29] <leonardchin> Q: I noticed you said that you add patches without writing test cases. Is this true?
[01:29] <leonardchin> A: Well, I of course write tests locally and run them before commiting
[01:29] <tmtm_> そろそろ取り上げられるレベル？
[01:29] <leonardchin> but sometimes they aren't merged into test all
[01:29] == kitaj [[email protected]] has joined #rubykaigi1
[01:29] <unak2> 実は既に取り上げられている説
[01:29] <leonardchin> but it is true that I was threatened with being stripped of commit rights ;)
[01:29] <n0kada> 仕様変更...ではないよなぁ
[01:30] == h_inoue [i=72b18260@gateway/web/freenode/x-1e3da8a1d0b28ce5] has joined #rubykaigi1
[01:30] <nigoju> コミットログ読むしか
[01:30] <leonardchin> 質問がよくわからん
[01:30] <unak2> *意図* は書いてないんじゃない?
[01:30] <tmtm_> ruby-dev 読んでればわかる？
[01:30] == yanaoki [i=cad16a05@gateway/web/freenode/x-c49238ec0577e04b] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
[01:30] <n0kada> これに関してはわからない
[01:30] == mode/#RubyKaigi1 [+o kitaj] by kitaj_
[01:30] <tmtm_> changelog見張って、都度質問するとか
[01:30] <n0kada> 誰かのblog
[01:30] <leonardchin> no questions?
[01:30] <shyouhei> ruby-cvs読みましょう。
[01:30] <leonardchin> maybe this is because it is Japan
[01:30] == znz_j [i=cad16a05@gateway/web/freenode/x-16e87148dbec0975] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
[01:30] <leonardchin> in America, they would be nonstop ;)
[01:30] <leonardchin> The end
[01:30] <@darashi> 一旦中継を切断します
[01:30] <leonardchin> 888
[01:31] <leonardchin> Next, lightning talks