gistfile1.irclog

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun  3 15:35:48 2012

Jun 03 15:35:48 *	Now talking on ##linux-ops
Jun 03 15:35:48 *	Topic for ##linux-ops is: PM WildPikachu with your thoughts about adding forums for ##linux | This is the administrative channel for ##Linux, we do not provide Linux support here. | This is a family-UNFRIENDLY channel !
Jun 03 15:35:48 *	Topic for ##linux-ops set by WildPikachu at Thu Jan  5 15:38:50 2012
Jun 03 15:35:52 *	Urchin (~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin) has joined ##linux-ops
Jun 03 15:37:21 <wN>	sauvin: that was pretty lame.
Jun 03 15:38:01 <sauvin>	I said "the subject is closed". Was this not clear?
Jun 03 15:38:13 <catphish>	the rule isn't changing, trust me
Jun 03 15:39:05 <wN>	the facts that 'subjects can be closed' in a community that has values in openness is stupid. especially when it comes to a subject such as a type of technology
Jun 03 15:39:05 <Psi-Jack>	There are plenty of other channels to discuss that "technology." ##linux isn't one of them due to the track history of it being 90% regarding the use of illegal piracy over a 3 year period.
Jun 03 15:39:33 <wN>	talking about piracy is one thing, but no torrents all together? ridiculous. 
Jun 03 15:39:39 <Psi-Jack>	But it's BECAUSE of that 90% we decided to close the subject and defer to a proper channel for such things. 
Jun 03 15:39:55 <Psi-Jack>	wN: When you see as much traffic on torrents and piracy as ##linux has, you'd understand.
Jun 03 15:39:56 <cmnky>	wN, start a new channel ... freenode is open like that
Jun 03 15:40:08 <catphish>	it frequently disrupts conversation in the channel, i think it would be better to redirect people politely to #bittorrent as with any other offtopic subject
Jun 03 15:40:09 <cmnky>	wN, or even start your own IRC network !
Jun 03 15:40:13 <catphish>	people rarely get a polite redirect
Jun 03 15:40:33 <cmnky>	wN, that way the police know everyone on your network is a criminal ... and when they take you out, it wont affect freenode
Jun 03 15:40:49 <wN>	i dont understand why there isn't a difference between torrents and piracy. they are not synonymous with one nanother
Jun 03 15:40:51 <sauvin>	Behind the scenes, here in the -ops channel, we do recognise that the whole issue of piracy is fraught with all kinds of complexity (not to mention "conflict"); there's a lot of hysteria and FUD attached to it.
Jun 03 15:41:10 <sauvin>	The primary tool used in piracy is torrent, however :(
Jun 03 15:41:17 <cmnky>	wN, they are not synonymous to you ... in other peoples minds, they are correlated to differing degrees
Jun 03 15:41:22 <wN>	IRC itself has been used for piracy for years.
Jun 03 15:41:28 <sauvin>	And, as Psi-Jack says, the bulk of the questions we get from n00bs seem to be about people wanting to "get stuff".
Jun 03 15:41:34 <Psi-Jack>	wN: Not on Freenode network it hasn't. 
Jun 03 15:41:41 <cmnky>	wN, which is why freenode has a 0 tolerance policy
Jun 03 15:41:48 <catphish>	freenode is incredibly zero piracy
Jun 03 15:42:03 <sauvin>	Dunno about "zero", but we don't support it.
Jun 03 15:42:50 <cmnky>	wN, you are a guest in freenodes house .... if you crap on the sofa, you will be forced to leave the party ... its the same behavioral rules you would impose on guests in your own house
Jun 03 15:43:00 <Psi-Jack>	Freenode does have that kind of policy against piracy on their network. Reported, with enough proof, will quickly result in that person and/or channel (if the channel's purpose is piracy related), will get locked down and thrown out.
Jun 03 15:43:21 <wN>	cmnky: this would be like if i sat on the sofa and they accused me of crapping on it
Jun 03 15:43:44 <cmnky>	wN, no ... you sat on the sofa, and were warned not to crap on it, and told what would happen if you do
Jun 03 15:43:53 <Psi-Jack>	wN: It's nothing to do against the technology itself, but what ##linux has seen of it from the users in it that have caused this. You need to understand that perspective.
Jun 03 15:43:59 <catphish>	the problem isn't the policy, but rather the response of both the people who don't know the policy, and those who enforce it
Jun 03 15:44:01 <sauvin>	I did say "hysteria", didn't I? We *do* recognise that torrents have legitimate application. It just doesn't seem to be the rule.
Jun 03 15:44:17 <catphish>	bittorrent is offtopic, but people don't accept that, and don't get politely told where is more appropriate
Jun 03 15:44:30 <wN>	but why ban ALL torrents? is it hte word 'torrent'? 
Jun 03 15:44:37 <wN>	what if i have a transmission questions? is that banned
Jun 03 15:44:38 <wN>	?
Jun 03 15:44:42 <catphish>	wN: it's offtopic
Jun 03 15:44:50 <catphish>	it's no more banned than discussing windows
Jun 03 15:44:52 <Psi-Jack>	wN: We'd direct you to #transmission
Jun 03 15:45:03 <wN>	everything can be redirected somewhere
Jun 03 15:45:16 <cmnky>	wN, you've been told already ... its the 90% use of torrents for piracy ... sorry the other torrent users have ruined it for you, but they have ... blame the glue sniffers ... not the carpenters
Jun 03 15:45:31 <cmr>	That's an.. interesting.. analogy, cmnky 
Jun 03 15:45:35 <sauvin>	wn, you've played in sandboxes with other kids when you were a kid yourself, right? Didn't you see kids saying "How come he can do *** but I can't!?" If we allow one kind of discussion of torrents, we'd have to allow them all because people generally don't understand layered granularity.
Jun 03 15:45:53 <wN>	but you're only adding to the stigma that the technology carries with it
Jun 03 15:46:04 <wN>	why not just ban piracy?
Jun 03 15:46:06 <sauvin>	That can't be helped.
Jun 03 15:46:08 <wN>	i actually had a question previously regarding running a bash script in crontab to automatically load torrents into transmission. 
Jun 03 15:46:19 <wN>	is that not an acceptable question for ##linux?
Jun 03 15:46:48 <sauvin>	Do what a lot of people do: "I have a thing I need run on a regular basis, and need to put it in crontab. How to do this?"
Jun 03 15:46:53 <cmnky>	wN, no ... freenode is not adding to any stigmas ... or is ##linux ... we are simply protecting everyones access to freenode ... as the authorities dont care that freenode is 99% legit, and 1% piracy ... they will shut down all of it en mass for the actions of the 1% if not policed
Jun 03 15:47:03 <cmnky>	wN, so write your congressmen or political officials
Jun 03 15:47:13 <catphish>	"why not just ban piracy?" is a good question and one i've always asked, but the policy is there and nobody wants to change it, so people should be told its offtopic and sent to #bash in your case
Jun 03 15:47:24 <phobos_anomaly>	wN: If you weren't pirating anything, why would you need a torrent client to begin with? everything legal is available via ftp. 
Jun 03 15:47:48 <sauvin>	phobos_anomaly, one problem I have with that personally is the resumption thing.
Jun 03 15:48:02 <Psi-Jack>	sauvin: FTP and HTTP both support resuming.
Jun 03 15:48:09 <sauvin>	I've not seen that yet.
Jun 03 15:48:12 <catphish>	the internet is geared towards selling downstream bandwidth to end users, to bittorrent makes no sense for legitimate content
Jun 03 15:48:17 <phobos_anomaly>	sauvin: wget -c 
Jun 03 15:48:25 <catphish>	*so
Jun 03 15:48:26 <wN>	phobos_anomaly: you get a fatter pipe with torrent with less strain on the servers, as they're you're peers
Jun 03 15:48:33 <Psi-Jack>	It's part of the HTTP/1.0 protocol, and FTP protocol spec. :)
Jun 03 15:48:44 <phobos_anomaly>	wN: I doubt that. 
Jun 03 15:48:45 <sauvin>	Psi-Jack, comments on torrent load?
Jun 03 15:48:47 <catphish>	wN: ISPs sell downstream bandwidth to end users and upstream bandwidth to content providers
Jun 03 15:48:48 <cmnky>	wN, everyone explaining policy to you atm ... knows how torrents work
Jun 03 15:48:59 <catphish>	so bittorrent is rarely useful for legitimate content imo
Jun 03 15:49:03 <wN>	Blizzard does all of their patching/downloading through torrent
Jun 03 15:49:08 <Psi-Jack>	Heh. Less strain? Holy shit you are SOOO wrong.
Jun 03 15:49:08 <catphish>	but this is offtopic
Jun 03 15:49:13 <catphish>	so im going back to sleep
Jun 03 15:49:15 <phobos_anomaly>	wN: bullshit
Jun 03 15:49:19 <Psi-Jack>	Torrents ADDS extreme strain on MANY server points.
Jun 03 15:49:20 <sauvin>	This channel doesn't actually have a topic. :>
Jun 03 15:49:26 <phobos_anomaly>	its availabe on their site as an ftp transfer
Jun 03 15:49:37 <catphish>	This is the administrative channel for ##Linux
Jun 03 15:49:48 *	catphish (~charlie@2001:9d8:2005:12::3) has left ##linux-ops ("Leaving")
Jun 03 15:50:27 <sauvin>	Oh, and wn, just to make you feel less at home, we also have no motherfucking language policy in this channel. :D
Jun 03 15:50:36 <wN>	:)
Jun 03 15:50:36 <BlastHardcheese>	if you weren't stealing books why do you have a bookshelf, everything legal is available through the library
Jun 03 15:50:40 <lacroix>	wN, to make a long story short...I'm addressing you as a ##linux op, not as a staff, there is a set of rules for ##linux, please abide by them
Jun 03 15:50:49 <lacroix>	you don't wish to do so, find yourself another channel
Jun 03 15:50:53 <lacroix>	it's as simple as that.
Jun 03 15:51:01 <wN>	lacroix: i've already left ##linux
Jun 03 15:51:10 <lacroix>	good for you
Jun 03 15:51:12 <sauvin>	BlastHardcheese, that analogy is flawed.
Jun 03 15:51:16 <wN>	i'll take my torrent discussions to #rhel and #fedora
Jun 03 15:51:23 <wN>	its thinking like this that caused megaupload to be taken down, even though it was being used for many legitimate reasons. :/
Jun 03 15:51:25 <lacroix>	please do so
Jun 03 15:51:28 <cmnky>	please do that
Jun 03 15:51:29 <wN>	i shall.
Jun 03 15:51:34 <lacroix>	not in here, not in ##linux
Jun 03 15:52:02 <sauvin>	What do you suppose was the percentage of "legitimate" throughput activity on megaupload?
Jun 03 15:52:13 <Psi-Jack>	1%
Jun 03 15:52:14 <cmnky>	sauvin, id say thats for the courts to decide
Jun 03 15:52:15 <wN>	from me? 100%
Jun 03 15:52:18 <lacroix>	I suggest you guys take it to #linux-social
Jun 03 15:52:19 <phobos_anomaly>	<=1%
Jun 03 15:52:43 <lacroix>	wn left ##linux, he's not seeking op assistance
Jun 03 15:53:05 <sauvin>	Then you'd say it's reasonable to conjecture that the site was concerned primarily with trafficking in stolen materials?
Jun 03 15:53:44 <phobos_anomaly>	sauvin: I'd say its a safe bet. 
Jun 03 15:53:45 <cmnky>	id say rare is the police action that doesnt have some basis for execution
Jun 03 15:53:57 <cmnky>	unstable governments aside
Jun 03 15:54:02 <wN>	most of the android development files i was interested in were hosted through megaupload. when it went down, i lost access with roms i was currently working with. they have a mirror but its terrible.
Jun 03 15:54:09 <sauvin>	I'd say cmnky has too much faith.
Jun 03 15:54:13 <cmnky>	new zealand is hardly considered an unstable political region
Jun 03 15:54:14 <wN>	regardless. i wont be in ##linux anymore, or here. good day.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jun  3 15:54:15 2012