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Hacking the Rectangular Starlink Dishy Cable
@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 15, 2023

i'm using two 400Ah 12v LiFePO4 batteries in 24v series connection, their overall storage is more than 9kWh and i'm capable of pulling more than 400 watts from them without substantial V-drop. the 48v step-up is capable of putting out more than 200 watts, as determined with a load tester. i actually under-sized the fuse at first, and it blew right through the 5A (135w). it doesn't burn up a 7.5A fuse, which is 202 watts.

the one aspect of your suggestion that i feel has merit is the precision required for terminating the connectors. it's entirely possible that my RJ45 crimping tool is inadequate for shielded through-connector termination. i'll have a go at making a "normal" patch cable out of the many dozen feet i've got remaining of the starlink cable, and see if it works that way. if it doesn't, that'll help me determine where to go from there.

this crimping tool does alright with some of the more "supple" CAT5e cable i've terminated, but its blades also seem to be wearing out.

@morehardware
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morehardware commented Feb 15, 2023 via email

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 15, 2023

i plugged the Swapped -> T568B cable into something and the port didn't light up :( i wonder if my crimping tool isn't pushing hard enough

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 15, 2023

i actually under-sized the fuse at first, and it blew right through the 5A (135w). it doesn't burn up a 7.5A fuse

I think putting a fuse in the PoE supply (i.e. between the PSU and the PoE) is an extremely good idea. I just put a 2A fuse into my system, so I have a 2A APM (the small automobile size) blade fuse between the PSU:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08889XW1F rated 48V, 3A

and the Tycon injector:

https://www.tyconsystems.com/poe-inj-1000-wt rated 2.25A at up to 80V.

I haven't had any problems so far, but it hasn't been on long yet. Certainly no problems during the boot. I've also turned on "preheat" as a test, I think that maybe adds 250mA to the load.

The fuses I'm using are underrated - they are limited to 32V and this is a 48V system. Technically I should be using the classic cylindrical glass tube, such as a 20mm, but at my own risk I chose to use the blade fuses because I have a whole load of them for various amperages. Full specifications of APM fuses are also readily available:

https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/electrical-circuit-protection/fuses/bussmann-series-supplemental-fuses/automotive-blade-type/bus-ele-ds-2048-atm-series.pdf

The important thing here is that I put a 2A fuse into a circuit that I know is limited to 2A continuous and which, by experiment (with preheat/snowmelt off) I also know doesn't take even 1.5A for more than 1 second continuous. You can see from the Eaton specification that with this fuse (well, at least if it was made by Eaton...) for the 2A fuse to fuse in 1 second the average current would have to be about 3.4A and I know that the 3.4A transient draw occurs for a lot less than 1s; more than 250uS but certainly less than 1s.

@WIMMPYIII
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i actually under-sized the fuse at first, and it blew right through the 5A (135w). it doesn't burn up a 7.5A fuse

I think putting a fuse in the PoE supply (i.e. between the PSU and the PoE) is an extremely good idea. I just put a 2A fuse into my system, so I have a 2A APM (the small automobile size) blade fuse between the PSU:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08889XW1F rated 48V, 3A

and the Tycon injector:

https://www.tyconsystems.com/poe-inj-1000-wt rated 2.25A at up to 80V.

I haven't had any problems so far, but it hasn't been on long yet. Certainly no problems during the boot. I've also turned on "preheat" as a test, I think that maybe adds 250mA to the load.

The fuses I'm using are underrated - they are limited to 32V and this is a 48V system. Technically I should be using the classic cylindrical glass tube, such as a 20mm, but at my own risk I chose to use the blade fuses because I have a whole load of them for various amperages. Full specifications of APM fuses are also readily available:

https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/electrical-circuit-protection/fuses/bussmann-series-supplemental-fuses/automotive-blade-type/bus-ele-ds-2048-atm-series.pdf

The important thing here is that I put a 2A fuse into a circuit that I know is limited to 2A continuous and which, by experiment (with preheat/snowmelt off) I also know doesn't take even 1.5A for more than 1 second continuous. You can see from the Eaton specification that with this fuse (well, at least if it was made by Eaton...) for the 2A fuse to fuse in 1 second the average current would have to be about 3.4A and I know that the 3.4A transient draw occurs for a lot less than 1s; more than 250uS but certainly less than 1s.

It's pretty impressive that it can cook 135w fuse.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 15, 2023

@WIMMPYIII : It's pretty impressive that it can cook 135w fuse.

What can cook a "135W" fuse and what is a "135W" fuse; fuses have amperages(A) and fuse times(s).

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 16, 2023

i guess the voltage across pins 1 and 8 should be there even when nothing's plugged in, right? if so, i think this Tycon is DOA because it is not putting out any Voltage.

@WIMMPYIII
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i guess the voltage across pins 1 and 8 should be there even when nothing's plugged in, right? if so, i think this Tycon is DOA because it is not putting out any Voltage.

Or something got shorted.

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 16, 2023

i had nothing plugged in, so there's no shorts - the LED for the tycon is on, indicating it has power. if there's any short, it's inside the tycon itself. that would explain why it pulled more than 5 amps.

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 17, 2023 via email

@WIMMPYIII
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Why can't GitHub handle image posts. They never come through.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 17, 2023

@bghira said:

i'm using two 400Ah 12v LiFePO4 batteries in 24v series connection, their overall storage is more than 9kWh and i'm capable of pulling more than 400 watts from them without substantial V-drop. the 48v step-up is capable of putting out more than 200 watts, as determined with a load tester. i actually under-sized the fuse at first, and it blew right through the 5A (135w). it doesn't burn up a 7.5A fuse, which is 202 watts.

You've got the fuse in the wrong place. It should be between the boost circuit and the PoE. I'm amazed a 7.5A doesn't blow too. Putting it where you have it sees the inrush current to start up the boost converter and then it sees the inrush to start up the antenna. There's no doubt that the antenna can pull about 7A for a short period of time during startup; I avoided that in my setup by not hot-powering the Tycon but your boost converter can deliver 10 times the current of my 48V/3A PSU.

If it is the antenna inrush then I think you need to find a way to do a soft-start. My system survived that 7A inrush but I really don't think it's a good idea to let it happen. A current limiter would help:

https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/analogue_circuits/power-supply-electronics/current-limiter-circuit.php

Remember that I measured (almost) 7A from a 3A PSU. It is very likely that it was limited to 7A by the PSU; see the comments in the above article.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 17, 2023

Why can't GitHub handle image posts. They never come through.

Some of them do; I believe my Excel charts (PNG images) appeared fine, right? Log in to github, go to the post, edit and and simply drag'n'drop the image into the message. It is necessary to wait for the image to be uploaded to github.com; some of the previous posts with missing images (the links just point to the gist) seem to match the "uploading" display. It looks like the mail gateway for email responses doesn't work that well.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 17, 2023

Just because it's of interest (to me anyway), here are two PoE magnetics modules. The top one is new, the bottom one has been burned out.

Those were the Tycon modules, including the WTx that started smoking? The images did not come through; as I suggested above if you log in to github and edit the message you should be able to drop the images in. I'm interested in seeing the inside of a Tycon (WT or WTx), I only have one and it is in active service :-) These are the faceplates, as images, entered in github by drag'n'drop from the TyconPower website:

poe-inj-1000-wtx 4

That (above) is the WRONG one:

poe-inj-1000-wt 3

That's the right one. Please tell me if the images don't come through!

@torrmundi
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POE magnetics Link LP6062ANL 01
Ok, I am on the Github web site, rather than replying via gmail. Hope this comes through.

@WIMMPYIII
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POE magnetics Link LP6062ANL 01 Ok, I am on the Github web site, rather than replying via gmail. Hope this comes through.

This is the one that got burnt when cross wired?

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 18, 2023

Ok, I am on the Github web site, rather than replying via gmail. Hope this comes through.

It came through. Meltdown. It also looks like the wires in the coils really did burn out.

Praying to the cockroach of electronics at this point that it's my Tycon that will burn out, not the magnetics in the dish :)

@morehardware
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WimpyIII, I have a McCown POE and hooked my power supply to it. But before plugging DIshy into the POE Side can you confirm the cable termination configs with the McCown jumpered like this. I set the pins as suggested (see pic) . From the explanation on this pin setup I think it means I can use a normal ethernet cable from the Data ONLY side to the router. Versus the Tycon required a swapped end from the POE to a T568B to the router. If I use the McCown POE with this pin setting, do I still need to terminate from the DISH a swapped end termination ? That swapped end would go into the POWER DATA side of the McCown. I believe you have a working setup with the McCown POE.

IMG-6217

@WIMMPYIII
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WimpyIII, I have a McCown POE and hooked my power supply to it. But before plugging DIshy into the POE Side can you confirm the cable termination configs with the McCown jumpered like this. I set the pins as suggested (see pic) . From the explanation on this pin setup I think it means I can use a normal ethernet cable from the Data ONLY side to the router. Versus the Tycon required a swapped end from the POE to a T568B to the router. If I use the McCown POE with this pin setting, do I still need to terminate from the DISH a swapped end termination ? That swapped end would go into the POWER DATA side of the McCown. I believe you have a working setup with the McCown POE.

IMG-6217

No swap with the McCown. Use 568B. The only reason for this swapping with the tycon is because you cannot change the power layout on it.
And the picture you have is the correct power layout for the dishy with jumpers on all 4 corners. You should be good to go.

@torrmundi
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Yes, burnt by crossed wires, from a McCown with wrong jumpers.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 19, 2023

For those who want to get rid of the motors this may help:

https://star-mountsystems.com/products/low-profile-flat-mount-for-rectangle-starlink-dishy

Read the instructions for installing the mount they sell; the pictures reveal a lot about the internals of the ethernet/PoE connection. I would be surprised if the 10-pin ethernet connector on the MB isn't just one of the standard ones. Personally I wouldn't remove the ferrite, it's unclear to me why they do that. It seems a simple connection to a waterproof RJ45 modular jack would solve all the problems of the oxidized/corroded SPX connector.

@petersticks
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Quick question… what is the best and proper way to connect the AC adapter to the McCown board? Just cut the cable and connect it?
Uploading image.jpg…

@WIMMPYIII
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Yes, sorry your picture isnt showing. If you are using a power pack style AC-DC with a lead plug already on it easiest way is to cut it off and crimp directly to whatever wire you are running to the injector or directly to the injector if you dont have any distance. I usually crimp to cat6 orange and brown + and green and blue - but mine are almost always 100ft or more to the injector and another 100-200ft up a tree.

@petersticks
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petersticks commented Feb 21, 2023

Yes, sorry your picture isnt showing. If you are using a power pack style AC-DC with a lead plug already on it easiest way is to cut it off and crimp directly to whatever wire you are running to the injector or directly to the injector if you dont have any distance. I usually crimp to cat6 orange and brown + and green and blue - but mine are almost always 100ft or more to the injector and another 100-200ft up a tree.

Thank you! Do I need to cut the wire before (exclude) or after (include) the ferrite bead? I cut it after and there is a center wire (positive) and shielded wire (negative) around that center one. Thanks again.

@WIMMPYIII
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On the reolink 52v the center is the positive and the outer wire is the ground. The ferrite I have done with and without and have not noticed any differences.

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 22, 2023

new router/cable showed up yesterday so i attempted to use the new router with the RJ45 splicing technique to reuse the existing cable end from the roof, it turns out, however, that the connector at the dishy end of the cable is just absolutely garbage. I don't understand, because I used dielectric grease when installing. It worked great for a while. Then suddenly stopped working.

Replacing the entire cable temporarily with the brand new one (proprietary, in-tact) it works properly.

this is a shame, but the next step for me is to just cut the proprietary connector out of the dishy and use RJ45 the whole way through.

@WIMMPYIII
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new router/cable showed up yesterday so i attempted to use the new router with the RJ45 splicing technique to reuse the existing cable end from the roof, it turns out, however, that the connector at the dishy end of the cable is just absolutely garbage. I don't understand, because I used dielectric grease when installing. It worked great for a while. Then suddenly stopped working.

Replacing the entire cable temporarily with the brand new one (proprietary, in-tact) it works properly.

this is a shame, but the next step for me is to just cut the proprietary connector out of the dishy and use RJ45 the whole way through.

That is what I would do.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 22, 2023

[T]he connector at the dishy end of the cable is just absolutely garbage.

Not just the plug, the jack/socket in the dish mast too. I couldn't work out what the problem was for several days until I eventually cut the dish-end plug off the cable and checked it carefully; the orange and orange/white conductors were both shorted to ground. I think I detailed the cleaning I did above (DeoxIt, WD40 contact cleaner, water hydrogen peroxide) and this was not sufficient to "unshort" the solid orange.

However the dish jack also shows extra resistance (about 2ohms) on the solid orange connector even after I cleaned it several times. My system is working with that. I cut the dish-end plug off a new cable and used Deoxit F5 on both the plug and the jack. Nevertheless I don't like having that extra 2 ohms. Sure it's only one conductor but it's a specific failure point and it should take 1/4 of the current, about 0.4A continuous as measured. It will take less because of the higher resistance, 6 ohms vs 4 ohms in the other conductors, but it's going to dissipate significant power at the oxidized contacts.

When it fails (I'm sure it will) I'll pry the jack out of the mast and do the same thing. The link I posted above shows how to pry the jack out of the end of the mast and it looks like there is going to be enough flex in the lead to cut the inline jack off and do a solder/heat shrink join on all eight conductors. Heat shrink tubing with glue is appropriate here because it will provide a waterproof connection. I'll probably use the heat shrink butt connectors with internal heat melt solder, they work pretty well, though I do twist the conductors together and put a drop of flux on them too.

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 22, 2023

yeah i already use the star-mount systems flat kit. but it doesn't encourage you to replace the proprietary jack (yet).

i opened up the very first router, the one that stopped outputting voltage of any kind, and found that it burned two or more of its pads out. the connector was no longer actually connected to the board. the tiny pads and wires that they're mounted through look rather inadequate.

same thing with the Tycon that i have that doesn't work. it has some pads blown out. in both cases for the SL router and the Tycon, the pads are gone. not just detached.

i would just get ahead of the issue and replace the crappy connector before it does greater damage.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 24, 2023

yeah i already use the star-mount systems flat kit. but it doesn't encourage you to replace the proprietary jack (yet).

If you've gone that far you've had access to the motherboard to disconnect the motor connector. The ethernet connector is in there too, just a 10-pin standard (I'm pretty sure) connector. Most likely 8 ethernet conductors plus two shield but the pictures I have aren't clear enough to be sure. Crimping a new connector with the StarLink cable and a new ferrite should allow the perfect solution. The StarLink cable seems pretty good, I believe it's the SPX connectors that are the problem.

I want to maximize my chances of getting a replacement from the StarLink customer support, when he comes back from his vacation. At this point that means preserving the connector even though I know it's damaged. At some point I will have to decide whether to just try to pull out the connector and solder it out of the way or to dremel the whole back off the dish. My inclination is to do the latter - I can flat mount it on my roof which, by design, points north-south and has about the optimal angle. I'll pull the MB connector and use some of the ~140ft of StarLink cable I have to wire it back to the PoE.

[I]n both cases for the SL router and the Tycon, the pads are gone. not just detached.

I haven't dremeled my defective router open yet. Just want to make sure the StarLink mgmt doesn't want it back. Even so mine failed gradually; disconnects over a period of several hours then permanent death. The problem might be caused by a short in the rectangular bit; a failed SPX connector at the antenna can certainly cause a Tycon or a McCown to blow out in this way because they are passive. The StarLink router PoE should be able to manage better but maybe it doesn't.

the ****** connector

I agree 110%

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