dkubb · August 29, 2015 14:22 · ernie · Jun 10, 2015
diff --git a/gistfile1.txt b/gistfile1.txt
 dkubb [12:34 PM] 
 I feel solnic’s pain in trying to swim against the current

 dkubb [12:44 PM] 
 https://twitter.com/dkubb/status/608359066172313600
 Dan Kubb@dkubb
 .@rubyfive @_solnic_ has done great things for ruby, and your dismissive tone to his valid criticism only hurts the community.
 Today at 12:44 PM

 mbj [12:47 PM] 
 Yeah. As I use a dismissive tone against ruby I could not complain for that. But solnic is more nice than me he does not deserve this.

 dkubb [12:48 PM] 
 hehe

 dkubb [12:48 PM]
 I just listened to it and it bugged me how they responded to it

 mbj [12:49 PM] 
 I'd just ignore them.

 dkubb [12:49 PM] 
 yeah

 dkubb [12:49 PM]
 still, solnic pretty much only does OSS that benefits others

 dkubb [12:49 PM]
 he’s not running a code school and trying to make tons of money off the ruby community

 dkubb [12:49 PM]
 I think that’s the root of many people’s fears, in criticizing ruby they feel you are attacking their livelihood (edited)

 mbj [12:50 PM] 
 Its not showing technical counter arguments. So fuck them. Also its very likely their target audience is disjunct from the people solnic actually can successfully address.

 dkubb [12:50 PM] 
 I don’t self-identify as a ruby developer anymore

 mbj [12:51 PM] 
 In no way I do this.

 mbj [12:51 PM]
 I'm past that point for 6month. The turn point was visiting that Idris guys.

 mbj [12:51 PM]
 I'm just a developer with special skills maintaining legacy (ruby) code bases.

 dkubb [12:52 PM] 
 It’s ironic that the very people who are riding on the back of  @_solnic_’s work are criticizing him

 mbj [12:53 PM] 
 Yeah, virtus is sorta a missing data transform layer in rails.

 mbj [12:53 PM]
 Not that I like virtus, I consider it inappropriate for input valdiation mapping and even domain modelling (that should NOT do coercions). But its a great piece of work that helped lots of people to deliver stuff.

 mbj [12:53 PM]
 And solnic knows (actually shares) my concerns.

 dkubb [12:56 PM] 
 one other common argument people use is “why are you complaining without offering a solution?” .. this bugs me because while it is sometimes possible for one person to identify a problem, it’s often outside of their ability to form an acceptable solution in their own

 mbj [12:56 PM] 
 Yeah, that argument is dump.

 dkubb [12:56 PM] 
 it makes me think the people who respond like that are only used to dealing with trivial problems

 dkubb [12:56 PM]
 hard problems require discussion

 mbj [12:57 PM] 
 If a solution "rails" is dump its not the solution to write another rails (why it should not be dump, if its just a rails). It needs to be fundementally different, and for that reason it will not be comparable.

 mbj [12:57 PM]
 Its like comparing Atomic with Coal powerplants.

 dkubb [12:57 PM] 
 the old approach isn’t working so you need a new approach

 dkubb [12:57 PM]
 not the old approach retried

 mbj [12:57 PM] 
 Yeah, and even if you *did* a new approach people will say: Still you did not do your own rails.

 dkubb [12:58 PM] 
 heh, yeah, especially when that’s kind of the point

 mbj [12:58 PM] 
 exactly. You can never make those people happy.

 mbj [12:58 PM]
 The argument "Do better for your own" is basically saying: I'm out of arguments :wink:

 mbj [12:59 PM]
 Not that piotr did not wrote what could be used to assemble a framework (virtus, rom) ...

 mbj [12:59 PM]
 he Is *de-facto* working on a stack.

 dkubb [12:59 PM] 
 he’s doing more than most others

 mbj [1:00 PM] 
 We should share him the last 100 lines of discussion, so he does not feel alone out there :wink:

 dkubb [1:00 PM] 
 The comments from ruby5 is yet more positive reinforcement that the ruby community is actually dying.

 mbj [1:01 PM] 
 This is expected.

 mbj [1:01 PM]
 Ruby does not scale for complex apps.

 mbj [1:01 PM]
 People grow up with ruby, and the more they grow up the more complex are their apps.

 dkubb [1:01 PM] 
 you can put it in a public gist and link to it in a public tweet if you want. I have nothing to hide with my comments

 mbj [1:01 PM] 
 And soon they must move to another platform to fullfill the demands of a more complex app.

 dkubb [1:01 PM] 
 or I can

 mbj [1:01 PM] 
 Just do, make sure my swearing is preserved.

 dkubb [1:01 PM] 
 haha
	dkubb [12:34 PM]
	I feel solnic’s pain in trying to swim against the current

	dkubb [12:44 PM]
	https://twitter.com/dkubb/status/608359066172313600
	Dan Kubb@dkubb
	.@rubyfive @_solnic_ has done great things for ruby, and your dismissive tone to his valid criticism only hurts the community.
	Today at 12:44 PM

	mbj [12:47 PM]
	Yeah. As I use a dismissive tone against ruby I could not complain for that. But solnic is more nice than me he does not deserve this.

	dkubb [12:48 PM]
	hehe

	dkubb [12:48 PM]
	I just listened to it and it bugged me how they responded to it

	mbj [12:49 PM]
	I'd just ignore them.

	dkubb [12:49 PM]
	yeah

	dkubb [12:49 PM]
	still, solnic pretty much only does OSS that benefits others

	dkubb [12:49 PM]
	he’s not running a code school and trying to make tons of money off the ruby community

	dkubb [12:49 PM]
	I think that’s the root of many people’s fears, in criticizing ruby they feel you are attacking their livelihood (edited)

	mbj [12:50 PM]
	Its not showing technical counter arguments. So fuck them. Also its very likely their target audience is disjunct from the people solnic actually can successfully address.

	dkubb [12:50 PM]
	I don’t self-identify as a ruby developer anymore

	mbj [12:51 PM]
	In no way I do this.

	mbj [12:51 PM]
	I'm past that point for 6month. The turn point was visiting that Idris guys.

	mbj [12:51 PM]
	I'm just a developer with special skills maintaining legacy (ruby) code bases.

	dkubb [12:52 PM]
	It’s ironic that the very people who are riding on the back of @_solnic_’s work are criticizing him

	mbj [12:53 PM]
	Yeah, virtus is sorta a missing data transform layer in rails.

	mbj [12:53 PM]
	Not that I like virtus, I consider it inappropriate for input valdiation mapping and even domain modelling (that should NOT do coercions). But its a great piece of work that helped lots of people to deliver stuff.

	mbj [12:53 PM]
	And solnic knows (actually shares) my concerns.

	dkubb [12:56 PM]
	one other common argument people use is “why are you complaining without offering a solution?” .. this bugs me because while it is sometimes possible for one person to identify a problem, it’s often outside of their ability to form an acceptable solution in their own

	mbj [12:56 PM]
	Yeah, that argument is dump.

	dkubb [12:56 PM]
	it makes me think the people who respond like that are only used to dealing with trivial problems

	dkubb [12:56 PM]
	hard problems require discussion

	mbj [12:57 PM]
	If a solution "rails" is dump its not the solution to write another rails (why it should not be dump, if its just a rails). It needs to be fundementally different, and for that reason it will not be comparable.

	mbj [12:57 PM]
	Its like comparing Atomic with Coal powerplants.

	dkubb [12:57 PM]
	the old approach isn’t working so you need a new approach

	dkubb [12:57 PM]
	not the old approach retried

	mbj [12:57 PM]
	Yeah, and even if you did a new approach people will say: Still you did not do your own rails.

	dkubb [12:58 PM]
	heh, yeah, especially when that’s kind of the point

	mbj [12:58 PM]
	exactly. You can never make those people happy.

	mbj [12:58 PM]
	The argument "Do better for your own" is basically saying: I'm out of arguments :wink:

	mbj [12:59 PM]
	Not that piotr did not wrote what could be used to assemble a framework (virtus, rom) ...

	mbj [12:59 PM]
	he Is de-facto working on a stack.

	dkubb [12:59 PM]
	he’s doing more than most others

	mbj [1:00 PM]
	We should share him the last 100 lines of discussion, so he does not feel alone out there :wink:

	dkubb [1:00 PM]
	The comments from ruby5 is yet more positive reinforcement that the ruby community is actually dying.

	mbj [1:01 PM]
	This is expected.

	mbj [1:01 PM]
	Ruby does not scale for complex apps.

	mbj [1:01 PM]
	People grow up with ruby, and the more they grow up the more complex are their apps.

	dkubb [1:01 PM]
	you can put it in a public gist and link to it in a public tweet if you want. I have nothing to hide with my comments

	mbj [1:01 PM]
	And soon they must move to another platform to fullfill the demands of a more complex app.

	dkubb [1:01 PM]
	or I can

	mbj [1:01 PM]
	Just do, make sure my swearing is preserved.

	dkubb [1:01 PM]
	haha