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Status #ofdevX
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[17:03] == elliotwoods [57c2652c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.194.101.44] has joined #ofdev
[17:03] <elliotwoods> \^^/
[17:03] <elliotwoods> hey all
[17:03] <ofTheo> hey elliot!
[17:04] <bilderbuchi> hey
[17:04] == admsyn [[email protected]] has joined #ofdev
[17:04] <elliotwoods> have we got moving yet?
[17:04] <elliotwoods> hey theo, hey chris!
[17:05] <dantheman_> not really elliotwoods
[17:05] <elliotwoods> hey dan!
[17:05] <elliotwoods> ok
[17:05] <ofTheo> I think things are really close for 0072
[17:05] <ofTheo> I think the changelog is the main thing - but I had a clever idea for that.....
[17:06] <elliotwoods> i'm just coming out of a heavy project. and am having a bit more free time now
[17:06] <bilderbuchi> great :-)
[17:06] <elliotwoods> could work tomorrow on anything
[17:06] <elliotwoods> do we have CB people? it's not something i'm very fond of, as it's not an environment i use myself / generally have setup
[17:07] == bakercp1 [[email protected]] has quit [Client Quit]
[17:07] <ofTheo> I've become a semi-pc person
[17:07] <ofTheo> actually VS and CB seems pretty solid at the moment
[17:07] <kylemcd> do we know if zach can make it? or is this pretty much it (in which case we can start w the agenda)
[17:07] == bakercp [~bakercp@2601:d:600:43:b158:cc7d:7bd3:e761] has joined #ofdev
[17:07] <elliotwoods> looking forwards to hearing about maine
[17:08] <elliotwoods> was it an emotional experience? did anyone get married?
[17:08] <ofTheo> I don't know if zach can make it - but might be good to start?
[17:08] <ofTheo> we all got tattoos
[17:08] <dantheman_> nice
[17:08] <elliotwoods> damn
[17:08] <ofTheo> :)
[17:08] <dantheman_> better have been stick and pokes
[17:08] <ofTheo> maine.cpp  : /
[17:08] <elliotwoods> ofxBFF
[17:08] <ofTheo> haha
[17:09] <ofTheo> it was good -
[17:09] <elliotwoods> what was the routine?
[17:09] <ofTheo> very dry, but very interesting to go through all the code
[17:09] <kylemcd> :)
[17:09] <kylemcd> ok, let's go!
[17:09] <ofTheo> we killed about two trees - printing out OF
[17:09] <kylemcd> yeah
[17:09] <ofTheo> was productive I think
[17:09] <kylemcd> for everyone who wasn't there: we printed out all of OF, and read through it in groups of two
[17:09] <ofTheo> found some gnarly stuff in the code base
[17:10] <kylemcd> we made a ton of comments on paper, then ported them over to github
[17:10] <elliotwoods> forced pair programming?
[17:10] <elliotwoods> great
[17:10] <ofTheo> what was the weirdest function naming we found?
[17:10] <kylemcd> there are a few "tracking issues" where all the comments are separate issues, but grouped together
[17:10] == benben [5cce1eb7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.206.30.183] has joined #ofdev
[17:10] <bilderbuchi> i like the tracking issues, keeps it compact
[17:11] <benben> hi
[17:11] <kylemcd> yeah
[17:11] <kylemcd> hi
[17:11] <ofTheo> something in ofxhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternion
[17:11] <bilderbuchi> hi ben
[17:11] <dantheman_> nice
[17:11] <bakercp> hey
[17:11] <kylemcd> ohh right
[17:11] == ofzach [[email protected]] has joined #ofdev
[17:11] <bilderbuchi> hey zach!
[17:11] <kylemcd> hey zach!
[17:11] <ofzach> hola
[17:11] <dantheman_> he made it
[17:11] <ofTheo> ah nice
[17:11] <kylemcd> anyway, one of the questions now is how to go about getting through those issues leftover from maine
[17:11] <elliotwoods> hey!
[17:11] <dantheman_> is there a nice list?
[17:11] <bilderbuchi> I'd say as ppl have time
[17:11] <ofTheo> def a post 0072 thing
[17:12] <bilderbuchi> and strike out the ones done in the comments in the group issue
[17:12] <kylemcd> i think there's a tag
[17:12] <bilderbuchi> github markdown ~~strikeout~~ should work
[17:12] <ofTheo> some stuff in there is more long term - so it might be good to mark what can be done more immediately.
[17:13] <elliotwoods> any strategy decisions?
[17:13] == admsyn1 [[email protected]] has joined #ofdev
[17:13] <bilderbuchi> I intend to tackle the deprecations one day soonish
[17:13] <ofTheo> hmm - no namespaces
[17:13] <ofTheo> :)
[17:13] <bilderbuchi> there's a bunch of them in one issue
[17:13] <elliotwoods> is that for real?
[17:13] <kylemcd> i'm looking for them right now, one sec...
[17:13] <elliotwoods> (no namespaces)
[17:13] <bilderbuchi> @kyle: there's the label code-review: https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/issues?labels=code-review&milestone=&page=1&sort=updated&state=open
[17:13] <bilderbuchi> should collect all the issues which came from maine
[17:13] <bilderbuchi> i labelled those while it happened
[17:14] <kylemcd> yes, code-review thanks :)
[17:14] <ofTheo> yeah there was some discussion about that and at least where we left off was that they didn't really solve any current problems.
[17:14] <bilderbuchi> the ones prefixed Group: are where all the collected stuff is
[17:14] <ofTheo> but that is something probably for a future strategy discussion
[17:14] == admsyn [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[17:14] <bilderbuchi> theo: discussion about what?
[17:14] <bilderbuchi> ah, namespaces?
[17:14] <ofTheo> Maine was mostly about reviewing what was there
[17:15] <ofTheo> wasn't really meant to be about roadmap so much
[17:15] <elliotwoods> yehp got it
[17:15] <kylemcd> yeah, i feel like we're going to need another event where we get together to actually fix all of those at once
[17:15] <ofTheo> :)
[17:15] <bilderbuchi> i meant "that they didn't really solve any current problems."  - who is "they"?
[17:15] <kylemcd> though some of them can be done separately, like the deprecation
[17:15] <ofTheo> @bilderbuchi "namespaces"
[17:15] <bilderbuchi> right :-)
[17:15] <ofTheo> but yeah - I prob shouldn't have brought that up
[17:15] <ofTheo> haha
[17:15] <bilderbuchi> thx
[17:16] <ofTheo> not sure what more about Maine we need to discuss ?
[17:16] <kylemcd> yeah i was hoping other people might be interested in tackling parts of it :)
[17:16] <ofTheo> I think maybe scheduling / prioritizing issues ?
[17:16] <kylemcd> but it looks like it's just deprecation
[17:17] <ofTheo> mapping issues to milestones?
[17:17] <bilderbuchi> definitely we have to dicuss how we tackle the mass of issues
[17:17] <ofTheo> :)
[17:17] <ofTheo> we were really nice @bilderbuchi
[17:17] <kylemcd> right, like this one is insane https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/issues/1547
[17:17] <bilderbuchi> if we tease them out into individual issues the issue tracker is gonna explode :D
[17:17] <ofTheo> at one point we were going to put each one in as an individual issue
[17:17] <bilderbuchi> ^^
[17:18] <bilderbuchi> break my poor old heart ;-P
[17:18] <ofTheo> but then we thought you would have a heartattack the next morning...
[17:18] <ofTheo> :)
[17:18] <bilderbuchi> probably :D
[17:18] <bilderbuchi> much obliged ..
[17:18] <elliotwoods> hah
[17:18] <ofTheo> yeah with this one for example: https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/issues/1547
[17:18] <ofTheo> might be good as kyle mentioned to do this in a code sprint
[17:19] <ofTheo> ie everyone on IRC for a day - mark stuff which we want to change and then go through and do it
[17:19] <kylemcd> yeah that's a good approach i think
[17:19] <ofTheo> even before that edit at the top of each issue with some keyword
[17:19] <ofTheo> "EASY_FIX"
[17:19] <bilderbuchi> that's gonna be fun :-)
[17:19] <ofTheo> "LONGTERM"
[17:19] <ofTheo> etc
[17:20] <ofTheo> "LEAVE_AS_IS"
[17:20] <dantheman_> https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/issues?labels=code-review&milestone=&page=1&state=open list
[17:20] <kylemcd> it is a little weird that we're using the comments like individual issues
[17:20] <bilderbuchi> well, there's "bitesize" :D
[17:20] <kylemcd> it might be better to actually make individual issues
[17:20] <kylemcd> there will be a ton, but it's more honest + useful
[17:20] <ofTheo> yeah - my feeling also
[17:20] <bilderbuchi> well would be better manageable prolly, but need to be categorized better before we do that
[17:20] <kylemcd> yes, i think so
[17:20] <elliotwoods> perhaps a simple tag 'piss easy'
[17:20] <ofTheo> maybe then we just move stuff into issues that we can tackle
[17:20] <kylemcd> lol
[17:20] <elliotwoods> for kind of small ones that are 1-liners
[17:21] <bilderbuchi> and be aware of dupes,
[17:21] <ofTheo> and leave the rest in there for record
[17:21] <bilderbuchi> that's "bitesize" elliot
[17:21] <elliotwoods> ahh
[17:21] <elliotwoods> good.
[17:21] <kylemcd> ok, we're not going to do that this month -- but it's good to know what people are thinking about this
[17:21] <ofTheo> its an english uk thing :)
[17:21] <kylemcd> let's talk again at the next meeting about breaking them down
[17:21] <bilderbuchi> would be great if we could collect issue groups so to say
[17:21] <bilderbuchi> maybe..
[17:21] <elliotwoods> haha
[17:21] <bilderbuchi> so fetch together a bunch of similar issue comments in one issue
[17:21] <elliotwoods> it'd be good to have an oF calendar
[17:21] <kylemcd> yeah, there could be some of that
[17:22] <elliotwoods> to see these kinds of things
[17:22] <elliotwoods> code sprints
[17:22] <elliotwoods> milestones
[17:22] <ofTheo> nice!
[17:22] <ofTheo> +1 for auto pull from GH milestones
[17:23] <kylemcd> ok, next
[17:23] <kylemcd> 2. 0072 release
[17:23] <bilderbuchi> we're nearly there! *dance*
[17:23] <kylemcd> i thought we were close, but new issues / prs keep getting milestoned
[17:23] <ofTheo> its basically done ...
[17:23] <kylemcd> i don't really understand
[17:23] <bilderbuchi> yeah me neither kyle
[17:23] <bilderbuchi> what's the deal with that icon PR?
[17:23] <ofTheo> changelog is biggest thing
[17:23] <bilderbuchi> that's a new feature...
[17:23] <kylemcd> is it the biggest thing, or the only thing?
[17:24] <ofTheo> well I thought it was a quick and safe merge
[17:24] <ofTheo> its not set for 0072
[17:24] <bilderbuchi> yeah it is
[17:24] <bilderbuchi> https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/issues?milestone=5&state=open
[17:24] <ofTheo> oh - I didn't intend that - was going to sneak it in if it felt safe
[17:24] <ofTheo> but its a little more complex
[17:24] <ofTheo> so it can wait
[17:24] <ofTheo> changelog is main thing
[17:24] <kylemcd> yeah i don't think we should be sneaking things in
[17:24] <bilderbuchi> great, thx. agreed@changelog
[17:24] <ofTheo> Win OS X and iOS was all working
[17:24] <kylemcd> it just delays releasing more
[17:24] <elliotwoods> so we're in testing, right?
[17:24] <ofTheo> last I checked
[17:25] <elliotwoods> or testing is done
[17:25] <ofTheo> we could release now if we didn't need to include changelog
[17:25] <bilderbuchi> i just pushed the icons PR back
[17:25] <kylemcd> thanks christoph
[17:25] <ofTheo> I had a thought about changelog
[17:25] <kylemcd> theo what's your idea for the changelog
[17:25] <kylemcd> right
[17:25] <bilderbuchi> i think there's still some fixes to do
[17:25] <bilderbuchi> for stuff we broke
[17:25] <ofTheo> do we need to include it as a text file in the actual release?
[17:25] <kylemcd> no
[17:25] <bilderbuchi> e.g. #1638
[17:25] <bilderbuchi> ok, 1 fix
[17:26] <bilderbuchi> yes
[17:26] <bilderbuchi> yes@changelog, include it
[17:26] <ofTheo> my thought was to have a section for Changes in the readme and just have a link to the changelog on the OF site
[17:26] <bilderbuchi> imo
[17:26] <bilderbuchi> no, please. keep the changelog in  the repo, in a separate file
[17:26] <dantheman_> yeah
[17:26] <ofTheo> ugg
[17:26] <dantheman_> changelog.txt
[17:26] <bilderbuchi> that's pretty standard in foss
[17:27] <elliotwoods> hmm, agreeing with theo
[17:27] <bilderbuchi> why? what's the problem?
[17:27] <ofTheo> my thought is that we could update the changelog on the OF site with what we've done so far
[17:27] <elliotwoods> imagining an awesome visualisation of git commits grouped by comments 'all this work was to bring you the best video experience we've ever had in oF'
[17:27] <bilderbuchi> why would we outsource/link this to a "webpage somewhere"?
[17:27] <ofTheo> and then release today
[17:27] <bilderbuchi> and we can't do that if the changelog is in the repo?
[17:27] <ofTheo> then we can continue to update the changelog
[17:28] <dantheman_> cause the release is a zip right?
[17:28] <ofTheo> yeah
[17:28] <dantheman_> yeah do that
[17:28] <dantheman_> it is what processing does
[17:28] <bilderbuchi> but if we update the changelog then it doesn't reflect the codebase anymore. or are  concerneced about the time it needs to compile the log?
[17:28] <dantheman_> bilderbuchi: we can add it to the github repo?
[17:29] <dantheman_> later
[17:29] == admsyn1 [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[17:29] <bilderbuchi> it's already in there.
[17:29] <ofTheo> yeah - its just a slow process :) and we could be done with 0072 now
[17:29] <bilderbuchi> but then it's just about our laziness imo
[17:29] <ofTheo> the only thing is that we would need to make it clear where to find the changelog
[17:29] <bilderbuchi> why not do the changelog now, and ship it with the release, and in the repo?
[17:29] <elliotwoods> +1 for laziness
[17:30] <bakercp> -- perhaps one of the issues to discuss is just a clarification of the detail level of the oF changelog …
[17:30] <dantheman_> bilderbuchi: cause it isn't finished
[17:30] <bilderbuchi> then we finish it
[17:30] <bilderbuchi> we're not done with the issues anyway
[17:30] <ofTheo> I think I just like the idea of making releases esier
[17:30] <ofTheo> *Easier
[17:30] <bilderbuchi> https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/issues/1638
[17:30] <bilderbuchi> theo: but, i don't understand. it doesn't get easier. you just have to do the work later
[17:30] <kylemcd> for the record, here's the changelog atm http://piratepad.net/of0072changelog
[17:30] <bilderbuchi> the same work
[17:31] <dantheman_> thanks kylemcd I was looking for it
[17:31] <ofTheo> :)
[17:31] <kylemcd> one possibility for making changelogs easier in the future is to start squashing commits before merging PRs
[17:31] <bilderbuchi> so you just postpone the effort for a while, and people will say, "ah, eff the changelog, nobody reads it, and the release is out anyway"
[17:31] <elliotwoods> i cna help with it tomorrow
[17:31] <ofTheo> actually one thing that would help a lot - is to have really clear commit messages
[17:31] <bilderbuchi> yes+1 to that :)
[17:32] <ofTheo> I agree @member:bilderbuchi - remember the CDM article?
[17:32] <dantheman_> holy shit there is a lot of work to do
[17:32] <bilderbuchi> but what would also make it easier is, if code would only enter the repo via PRs - then we just need to look at the issues
[17:32] <ofTheo> anyway - as I said it was just a suggestion
[17:32] <dantheman_> I gotta add like everything that was fixed in android : /
[17:32] <bilderbuchi> CDM article: no, which one?
[17:32] <elliotwoods> the one where it misquoted of 0071 features
[17:32] <benben> +1 for only PR code changes
[17:33] <ofTheo> I would rather have OF releases happen quicker - with changelogs coming slightly later
[17:33] <ofTheo> but thats my preference
[17:33] <bilderbuchi> ah, yeah i do :-)
[17:33] <elliotwoods> http://createdigitalmotion.com/2012/05/openframeworks-0071-biggest-release-yet-more-examples-more-creative-coding-goodness-details/
[17:33] <ofTheo> okay - howabout this:
[17:33] <dantheman_> ofTheo: push the zip lets make a website? openFrameworks.cc/changelog
[17:33] <bilderbuchi> imo changelog should be in lockstep with the relevant release, just like the code it describes
[17:33] <ofTheo> lets have a summary of changes in changelog.txt in GH repo
[17:33] <elliotwoods> the one with cinder-gate
[17:33] <ofTheo> ie a simple overview of main changes
[17:34] <ofTheo> easy to do
[17:34] <bilderbuchi> yeah, i was gonna say we probably should get the level of detail in the CL down anyway
[17:34] <bilderbuchi> it's too detailed
[17:34] <ofTheo> and then link to a commit dump or something like that ?
[17:34] <ofTheo> curious what ofzach thinks - as he was always a big proponent of changelog
[17:35] <ofzach> I think having a detailed log is really useful
[17:35] <bilderbuchi> one thing that would probably help is if people started writing changelog while bringing stuff in
[17:35] <bilderbuchi> like i did with the deprecations
[17:35] <ofzach> p5  was always a good model
[17:35] <bilderbuchi> then the work at release will be less
[17:35] <ofTheo> oh nice - like add as you go
[17:35] <bilderbuchi> yes
[17:35] <elliotwoods> more beaurocracy
[17:35] <ofTheo> or maybe easier
[17:36] <bilderbuchi> also, people have more idea about what changed when the actually coded the stuff
[17:36] <ofTheo> just a better commit message system
[17:36] <ofTheo> change: something changed
[17:36] <elliotwoods> yeah. +1
[17:36] <ofTheo> addition: new feature
[17:36] <bilderbuchi> commit msg guidelines are already in the wiki
[17:36] <bilderbuchi> btw
[17:36] <ofTheo> small: this message isn't include
[17:36] <ofzach> add as you go makes sense
[17:36] <elliotwoods> sneak : a feature change i made which isn't listed in the PR
[17:36] <ofTheo> haha
[17:36] <ofzach> haha
[17:37] <ofTheo> rootkit:
[17:37] <bilderbuchi> wouldn't go as far. commit msgs should describe the changes they introduce, and not be so much higher-level categorization stuff imo
[17:37] <bilderbuchi> lol@eliott
[17:37] <ofTheo> it would make it easy though
[17:37] <ofTheo> change: would become /
[17:37] <ofTheo> addition: would become + etc
[17:37] <benben> the rules of contributing to of a getting more and more ;)
[17:37] <bilderbuchi> +1 to ben, that's bad
[17:37] <benben> a = are
[17:38] <ofTheo> anyway - we can continue how we have been - I'm fine with that
[17:38] <ofTheo> just feel like the way we're doing changelog isn't fun or effecient
[17:38] <ofTheo> and holds up releases
[17:38] <kylemcd> another solution is to keep shortening the time between releases
[17:38] <bilderbuchi> also: we already have difficulty getting people to include "closes #xxxx" for the issue tracker. i'm not confident that they will consistently follow tags in commit msgs
[17:38] <kylemcd> changelogs will continue to get shorter
[17:38] <benben> what about: on the last meeting before release, every section leader tells the changes and put it in a pad
[17:39] <elliotwoods> the nature in which people code oF is changing. code sprints, pre-request issues on github
[17:39] <ofTheo> true - or have OF documentation team help with changelog
[17:39] <elliotwoods> this should be rethought at sometime. to make it the most gratifying, consistent, approachable
[17:39] <ofTheo> @benben - that could help
[17:39] <bilderbuchi> I think writing it as you go/while you code is least bureaucratic, most efficient way to ease the workload near release.
[17:39] <bilderbuchi> not everyone will do it
[17:39] <bilderbuchi> but that's not so bad
[17:39] <elliotwoods> (and documented, safe, etc)
[17:40] <bilderbuchi> cause a good part will be done, rest can be cleaned up more easily
[17:40] <benben> or: section leader updates changelog.txt if he merged a PR....
[17:40] <dantheman_> well I think the only way to make this work better it to, whenever you issue a PR you update the change log
[17:40] <dantheman_> benben: ^^
[17:40] <benben> :)
[17:40] <elliotwoods> whenever pr closes
[17:40] <elliotwoods> update changelog
[17:40] <ofTheo> well at least for 0072 we need a changelog sprint
[17:41] <dantheman_> ofTheo: working on it
[17:41] <bilderbuchi> yes
[17:41] <elliotwoods> a workflow to that effect
[17:41] <ofTheo> because the rest of the 0072 issues are super quick
[17:41] <elliotwoods> can you not group the commits by PR?
[17:41] <elliotwoods> or is that too much github, and less git
[17:41] <benben> there are less people merging a PR, then opening one, i think it would be easier to tell a few people to update changelog :)
[17:41] <bilderbuchi> @elliot? what do you mean?
[17:42] <elliotwoods> well in that changelog list
[17:42] <elliotwoods> that we are going through
[17:42] <elliotwoods> could the groups of commits not be grouped by PR
[17:42] <elliotwoods> for easy of changelog
[17:42] <benben> elliotwoods: would be some crazy github api crunching i think
[17:42] <elliotwoods> ^ease
[17:42] <elliotwoods> yep. oh jim~~!!
[17:42] <elliotwoods> greg~~!!
[17:42] <bilderbuchi> well there's also a list of closed issues/PRs but it turns out the don't cover everything cause people still push stuff into OF without PR
[17:43] <elliotwoods> yep, but they'd just be at the end in 'uncategorised'
[17:43] <bilderbuchi> that's what i initially did
[17:43] <elliotwoods> ok. great
[17:43] <bilderbuchi> no, the _issues_ from GH, not the commits
[17:43] <elliotwoods> anyway. let's just get on this changelog
[17:43] <elliotwoods> changelog sprint tomorrow!
[17:43] <elliotwoods> woowoo
[17:44] <bilderbuchi> see here: http://piratepad.net/F3SMd8Q0m2
[17:44] <elliotwoods> super exciting. what did you do this weekend 'well i hung out with some people on irc and updated a changelog'. you know you want to
[17:44] <elliotwoods> who's in for it/
[17:44] <elliotwoods> i am
[17:44] <ofTheo> love the energy!
[17:44] <ofTheo> :)
[17:44] <bilderbuchi> hey yeah.
[17:44] <ofTheo> yes - and lets put out another call on the dev list
[17:44] <bilderbuchi> i'm available too
[17:44] <kylemcd> letsss goooo
[17:44] <ofzach> sounds good
[17:44] <bilderbuchi> for changelog stuff tomorrow
[17:45] <bilderbuchi> I have some GH API stuff in place so can compile lists more or less easily
[17:45] <kylemcd> ok, tomorrow noon nyc time (or whenever you're free)
[17:45] <kylemcd> i'll send the message
[17:45] <elliotwoods> time for one of those horizontal lines kyle!
[17:45] <elliotwoods> great
[17:45] <bilderbuchi> great :-) next!
[17:45] <kylemcd> holld on one sec
[17:45] <kylemcd> two thoughts:
[17:46] <bilderbuchi> sry, you're MC, i forgot :D
[17:46] <kylemcd> 1 regarding editing the changelog as we go, we didn't make a decision on that
[17:46] <kylemcd> 2 we still need more windows devs. theo did you get any signups after the tweet
[17:46] <kylemcd> ?
[17:47] <elliotwoods> the point i mentioned above, about code sprints. for a code sprint it's easy to have a kind of 'here's what the changelog should look like, lets tick things off'
[17:47] <ofTheo> 2: we get a few signups every day - but no one who as been vocal about win dev
[17:47] <elliotwoods> and where host it? on git?
[17:47] <ofTheo> might be good to get some responses via twitter first - so we know who too look out for?
[17:48] <kylemcd> changelog is on git yes
[17:48] <ofTheo> 1: I think is ideal
[17:48] <bilderbuchi> @elliot: it's changes.txt in the OF repo
[17:48] <ofTheo> but I wonder how many people will remember
[17:48] <bilderbuchi> and meanwhile on Piratepad until finished
[17:48] <elliotwoods> so we'll update that one as we go along them?
[17:48] <elliotwoods> then
[17:48] <bilderbuchi> 1: we could add this to CONTRIBUTING.md
[17:48] <bilderbuchi> so people will know about it
[17:48] <kylemcd> the issue is that if some people update the changelog and others don't
[17:48] <bilderbuchi> and nudge people in the PR discussion
[17:49] <kylemcd> then it will just be harder to finish it when it's time to finalize the changes
[17:49] <kylemcd> it has to be all or nothing
[17:49] <bilderbuchi> really?
[17:50] <kylemcd> yes, because if some people are updating the changelog and others aren't then we'll get duplicates when we try to finalize it
[17:50] <bilderbuchi> i think the one thing that would make it easy is if _all_ code goes into OF via PRs. then we could just parse the list of PRs which is a factor of 10 shorter than the commit log
[17:50] <ofTheo> hmm
[17:50] <elliotwoods> +1
[17:51] <elliotwoods> even if it's just to appear on the log
[17:51] <kylemcd> i think it's ok for some small fixes to still go in without PRs, but they should likewise not be worth mentioning in the changelog
[17:51] <bilderbuchi> only small/trivial changes can be committed directly, but they wouldn't be in the CL anyway
[17:51] <kylemcd> yes
[17:51] <bilderbuchi> ha, same thuoght . concurrency ftw :D
[17:51] <ofTheo> right agreed kyle
[17:51] <kylemcd> ok, that's the plan
[17:51] <ofTheo> anything that should be in changelog should be via PR
[17:51] <bilderbuchi> is TAZ ok with that?
[17:51] <kylemcd> from here on out, PR list determines changelog
[17:52] <kylemcd> ok -- and on the windows thing, theo there were no replies to the tweet, just retweets https://twitter.com/openframeworks/status/252830428036202496
[17:52] <ofTheo> that is close to what we've been doing anyway since damian and bilders' doc
[17:52] <kylemcd> so we'll have to ask on the mailing list after you announce the new members
[17:52] <ofzach> how about really tiny bug-fixes?
[17:52] <ofTheo> we still push
[17:52] <elliotwoods> how about including a call out for windows devs in the 0072 announcement
[17:52] <elliotwoods> (press release)
[17:52] <kylemcd> good idea elliot
[17:52] <bilderbuchi> if they're really tiny you can push them. if they're small, they won't be in the CL, if they're not just push a change to the CL at the same time
[17:53] <bilderbuchi> but very few people should do that anyway
[17:53] <ofTheo> sounds good
[17:53] <bilderbuchi> so it should be easy to "enforce"
[17:53] <kylemcd> was there ever an 0071 press release to the OF users list?
[17:53] <elliotwoods> do we have a PR (press release)
[17:53] <elliotwoods> ?
[17:53] <elliotwoods> snap
[17:53] <ofzach> we have a very big mailing list
[17:53] <ofTheo> two issues left: https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/issues?milestone=5&page=1&state=open
[17:53] <ofzach> I think the last big email was with the new website / 0071 ?
[17:53] <kylemcd> ok cool
[17:54] <kylemcd> grrrreat
[17:54] <kylemcd> ok next!
[17:54] <kylemcd> project generator
[17:54] <kylemcd> ofzach, state of the pg? what should we expect for tomorrow's release?
[17:54] <ofTheo> I updated it a bit yesterday
[17:55] <ofzach> I just pushed windows simple project generator for cb
[17:55] == jvcleave [[email protected]] has joined #ofdev
[17:55] <ofTheo> its now in apps/projectGenerator/ as a submodule
[17:55] <ofzach> it's got a small bug with paths that needs attention
[17:55] <ofTheo> so will be packaged with the release
[17:55] <ofTheo> tried to make the ui a little more friendly
[17:55] <ofzach> I think we should compile it and put it in the lowest level of OF
[17:55] <ofzach> yeah I saw that theo, looks good
[17:56] <ofzach> patricio and one of my students also looking at it
[17:56] <ofTheo> cool!
[17:56] <ofTheo> though @ofzach
[17:56] <ofTheo> I don't think we should compile it
[17:56] <ofzach> why?
[17:56] <ofTheo> only for the nightlies / auto package issue
[17:56] <ofTheo> right now our releases can just be the nightlies renamed
[17:57] <ofTheo> we don't have to do anything by hand
[17:57] <ofTheo> adding the app as an executable means it would all have to be hand packaged
[17:57] <ofTheo> ( at least if I get what you are saying )
[17:57] <ofzach> I disgree for releases
[17:57] <ofzach> for nightly/etc fine
[17:58] <ofzach> I think we need this tool compiled
[17:58] <ofTheo> :)
[17:58] <kylemcd> yeah i think it needs to be compiled too
[17:58] <ofTheo> hmm - very much disagree
[17:58] <ofTheo> ( in a nice way )
[17:58] <ofzach> I diagree very much too !
[17:58] <kylemcd> that said, if the pg doesn't compile, the projects it generates won't either
[17:58] <kylemcd> lol
[17:58] <ofzach> (in a nice way too!)
[17:59] <ofTheo> haha
[17:59] <ofzach> I don't think people should even see this project !!
[17:59] <kylemcd> oftheo is it just because it's an inconvenience?
[17:59] <ofTheo> I'm just so excited that we can do a release with a "Publish" button
[17:59] <ofzach> it's gnarly
[17:59] <bilderbuchi> +1 to automation!
[17:59] <kylemcd> oftheo maybe think of it like the static libs, which aren't automated yet
[17:59] <ofTheo> If a mistake is made we can quickly fix it and update the release.
[18:00] <ofzach> I really really believe in automation
[18:00] <benben> i think we can automate it...
[18:00] <elliotwoods> +1 to 'simple pg' being 1-button
[18:00] <elliotwoods> i.e. compiled
[18:00] <elliotwoods> the first experience shouldn't be going through a complex project
[18:00] <ofTheo> but you will be opening an xcode project anyway as soon as you start working
[18:00] <elliotwoods> yep
[18:00] <ofTheo> or opening examples
[18:00] <elliotwoods> but imagine a first oF experience
[18:01] <elliotwoods> as minimal as possible is better surely
[18:01] <ofTheo> so why not just say.... once you have played with examples
[18:01] <elliotwoods> just you and the testApp
[18:01] <ofTheo> make your own projects using the Simple PG
[18:01] <ofTheo> first OF experience will be running examples
[18:01] <ofTheo> imo
[18:01] <elliotwoods> it used to be cmd+c, cmd+v with emptyExample
[18:01] <elliotwoods> it's minimal
[18:01] == damian0815 [[email protected]] has joined #ofdev
[18:01] <bilderbuchi> agreed@theo
[18:02] <elliotwoods> so acutely infinitesimiley different
[18:02] <bilderbuchi> hey damian
[18:02] <ofTheo> it will be weird to see an app and the first thing you open is not a nice example but a tool for making projects
[18:02] <elliotwoods> so it's probably not a big point
[18:02] <damian0815> hey sorry i'm late!
[18:02] <damian0815> logged somewhere?
[18:02] <elliotwoods> hey!
bakercp
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