節目主持人 Rick Sanchez 聲稱，透過與 Tucker Carlson 的深度訪談揭示：美國政治體系已被深層國家、以色列影響力及全球資本力量所掌控，兩黨領袖在核心議題上共謀背離人民利益，而西方世界正處於系統性衰落之中，並被推向與俄羅斯及伊朗的戰爭邊緣。
- 主持人 Rick Sanchez 介紹 Tucker Carlson 背景，回顧兩人在 CNN 與 Fox News 的共事經歷，並聲稱 Carlson 離開 Fox 後在替代媒體領域的影響力已超越其主流媒體時期。
- Rick Sanchez 播放 Candace Owens 訪談片段，Owens 表示若 Carlson 競選總統她將全力支持；Carlson 回應稱此現象反映美國政治階層的失敗，但本人無意參選。
- Carlson 陳述美國兩黨在經濟與外交政策上立場一致，僅在次要議題上製造分歧以掩蓋共識；他聲稱美國重大決策由「永久官僚體系／深層國家」而非民選官員做出。
- Carlson 描述西方國家自二戰結束以來的共同衰落模式：人口崩潰、出生率下降、官方無神論、大規模移民及財富集中，並聲稱此為有意識的計畫而非自然演變。
- 討論聚焦俄羅斯：Carlson 提及普京於 2000 年曾申請加入北約遭拒，並主張烏克蘭戰爭是美國推動的代理戰爭，目的是摧毀俄羅斯。
- 節目播放烏克蘭強制動員與俄羅斯海灘遭無人機攻擊的影片，Carlson 聲稱這些攻擊由美國及北約提供目標情報，目的是迫使俄羅斯以武力回應北約國家。
- Carlson 指控以色列對美國政治擁有系統性控制，並揭露自己在 Fox News 時期曾接獲與內塔尼亞胡有關人士提供 Hunter Biden 筆記型電腦資訊，而情報界卻將之歸咎於俄羅斯。
- 節目尾聲討論權力結構，Carlson 主張民主國家須確保民選政治領袖權力大於寡頭與科技公司，並稱俄羅斯與中國是政治領袖權力超越商業領袖的兩個例子。
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替代媒體的權力轉移與「政治素人」敘事：Carlson 從 Fox News 被解僱後轉向替代媒體，其成功模式與 2010 年代以來主流媒體信任度崩潰的趨勢相互呼應。然而，評論者聲稱其「收視數超越 Fox 時期」的數據缺乏獨立驗證，且替代媒體的「不受約束」特質本身亦可能成為新的權力集中形式。Carlson 以「我只是一名播客」自謙，實則透過否定自身政治資格來強化「現行政治階層更為失敗」的論證——這與 2016 年川普競選時的「局外人」敘事一脈相承。值得批判性思考的是：若以媒體影響力塑造公眾輿論，則此種「非政治身分」的政治介入是否比傳統政治人物更缺乏問責機制？
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RT 平台的特殊性與論述正當性問題：節目播出於俄羅斯國營媒體 RT，主持人 Rick Sanchez 與 Carlson 討論的議題涉及俄羅斯、烏克蘭及北約，此語境賦予內容特殊的政治意義。一方面，Carlson 對美國外交政策的批評與俄羅斯官方的反美敘事高度吻合——包括北約挑釁、烏克蘭非主權國家、俄羅斯被迫應對等論點。另一方面，這亦反映全球媒體格局的翻轉：俄羅斯國營媒體成為美國異議聲音的傳播平台，挑戰了冷戰時期的媒體地緣政治格局。但觀眾應警惕：此類節目在 RT 播出，其論點與俄羅斯國家利益之間的結構性共振，並不能簡單等同於「獨立報導」。
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反猶太主義指控與「以色列影響力」論述的邊界：Carlson 明確否認自己是反猶太主義者，並試圖將批評以色列政府與仇恨猶太人區分開來。然而，其使用的語言——如「美國政治階層被以色列控制」「誰控制你？就是你不能批評的對象」——長期以來正是反猶太主義陰謀論的經典敘事框架。歷史脈絡上，「猶太人控制政府」的論調可追溯至《錫安長老會紀要》的偽造文件，因此在公共論述中具有特殊敏感性。Carlson 的論證建立在個人經曆的具體案例（Hunter Biden 筆記型電腦）之上，但從具體案例跳躍至「以色列控制美國政治」的總體論斷，缺乏嚴謹的因果鏈條。值得注意的反直覺觀察是：對以色列政策的批評在美國主流政治中確實長期受到限制，但這種限制與「控制」之間的界線，恰恰需要最嚴格的證據標準來支撐。
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「西方衰落論」作為意識形態替代方案：Carlson 描述的西方衰落模式——人口崩潰、出生率下降、無神論、大規模移民、財富集中——構成了一種敘事框架，將多元的社會變遷現象整合為單一的「文明衰亡」故事。此敘事在歐洲新右派、美國民族保守主義和俄羅斯官方意識形態之間形成了跨國共鳴。Carlson 聲稱這一模式「不是意外，不是有機演變」，但未提供具體行動者的證據。這種「有意識的毀滅」論證將複雜的歷史進程簡化為陰謀主體的行動，在認知上具有吸引力，卻迴避了更深層的結構性問題：晚期資本主義的經濟極化如何與民族國家的職能萎縮相互作用。節目中 Carlson 對俄羅斯「基督教復興」的正面描述（如「最後一個大型白人基督教國家」的表述），實際上暴露了其論述中族群與宗教的潛在關聯，這在西方右翼政治語境中具有明確的意識形態定位。
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資本權力與民粹主義的悖論：Carlson 提出「權力追隨資本」的觀察，主張民主國家應確保政治領袖權力大於商業寡頭，並以普京 1990 年代打擊寡頭為例。這一論述觸及了當代民主治理的核心矛盾——跨國資本與國家主權之間的張力。但具有反諷意味的是：Carlson 作為一名無債務的富裕媒體人，其言論自由的「特權」恰恰來自於他所批評的資本積累體系。他自稱「因為我沒有債務，所以我能說真話」，這句看似謙遜的表態實際揭示了更深層的困境：在債務經濟中，言論自由本身已成為了階級特權。而他所稱讚的俄羅斯與中國模式——政治領袖權力超越商業領袖——在實踐中呈現的另一面是：政治權力對資本的絕對支配往往導致另一種腐敗形式，即以國家安全或政治忠誠為名對經濟資源的掠奪性控制。節目未能探討這一權力集中的代價，僅呈現了「政治權力應大於商業權力」的理想化表述。
| 概念 | 說明 |
|---|---|
| 深層政府（Deep State） | 評論者聲稱美國重大決策由非民選的永久官僚體系做出，而非由總統或國會實際掌控 |
| 兩黨共識（Bipartisan Consensus） | 評論者主張民主黨與共和黨在經濟、外交政策等核心議題上立場一致，僅在社會文化議題上製造分歧 |
| 替代媒體（Alternative Media） | 指傳統主流媒體以外的平台，如播客、獨立新聞網站等；Carlson 被聲稱是此領域最具影響力的人物之一 |
| 代理戰爭（Proxy War） | 評論者用來描述烏克蘭衝突的框架，主張烏克蘭是北約/美國用來對抗俄羅斯的工具 |
| 強制動員（Forced Mobilization） | 指節目中播放的烏克蘭徵兵人員在社區中強制帶走男性的影片畫面 |
| 人口替換論（Replacement Migration） | 評論者聲稱大規模移民是有意圖的戰爭行為，用以終結西方歷史民族國家的存續 |
| 寡頭（Oligarch） | 節目中用以指稱俄羅斯 1990 年代的極富商人階層，亦被引申為美國的億萬富翁階層 |
| 普遍標準／普世正義（Universal Standards） | Carlson 用以論證道德判斷應適用於所有國家（包括以色列與美國）的原則 |
| 債務國家（Debtor Nation） | 評論者聲稱美國作為一個國家及其國民個人層面均處於債務狀態，喪失了言論與行動的自由 |
| 節目聲稱 | 性質 | 備註 |
|---|---|---|
| Tucker Carlson 曾於 CNN 及 Fox News 工作，後被 Fox News 解僱 | 事實 | 可透過公開記錄驗證 |
| Rick Sanchez 曾於 CNN 工作，現於 RT 主持節目 | 事實 | 可透過公開記錄驗證 |
| Carlson 離開 Fox 後的收視數超越其在 Fox 時期 | 觀點/未經證實 | 缺乏獨立數據來源；替代媒體的收視數衡量標準不一 |
| 普京於 2000 年曾向小布希提出加入北約 | 事實 | 有歷史記錄佐證，普京確曾提出此議題，但各方對其認真程度有不同解釋 |
| 民主黨與共和黨在經濟與外交政策上立場一致 | 觀點 | 可部分驗證：兩黨在特定重大議題（如對烏克蘭援助、對以色列支持）確有跨黨共識，但「立場一致」為概括性判斷 |
| 美國重大決策由深層國家而非民選官員做出 | 觀點 | 缺乏直接證據；屬政治理論中的「行政國家」爭論範疇 |
| 俄羅斯海灘遭無人機攻擊，由美國及北約提供目標情報 | 指控/觀點 | Carlson 聲稱 CIA 提供目標情報；此為未經證實的指控 |
| 以色列相關人士向 Fox News 提供 Hunter Biden 筆記型電腦資訊 | 觀點/個人見證 | 僅有 Carlson 的個人證詞，缺乏獨立驗證 |
| 美國政治階層被以色列控制 | 觀點 | 屬高度爭議的政治論斷，缺乏系統性證據 |
| 英國因社交媒體貼文入獄人數為俄羅斯的三倍 | 事實/需驗證 | Carlson 主張有公開數據，但節目未提供具體來源；此說法需核實 |
| 烏克蘭非主權國家，為北約客戶國 | 觀點 | 屬高度政治化的定性判斷，與烏克蘭的國際法地位不符 |
| 烏克蘭強制徵兵（畫面中社區抓人） | 事實/需核對 | 烏克蘭確有徵兵措施，但節目中影片片段的具體情形與代表性需驗證 |
| 美國正在走向與俄羅斯的全球衝突 | 預測 | 屬基於當前趨勢的推斷，非已確立事實 |
| 俄羅斯比英國更自由（可看英國電視但英國不能看俄羅斯電視） | 觀點 | 涉及不同面向的比較，簡化了「自由」的複雜內涵 |
替代媒體的商業模式與政治影響力：Carlson 的案例顯示，被主流媒體邊緣化的主持人在替代媒體領域可能獲得更大的受眾基礎和話語影響力。這對傳統新聞機構提出了嚴峻挑戰：當「被解僱」不再意味著影響力的終結，而可能成為影響力擴張的契機時，傳統媒體對其內容和人才的管控能力正在失效。替代媒體的訂閱制、捐贈制和小額支付模式減少了對廣告營收的依賴，也降低了廣告主輿論壓力對內容的影響。然而，此模式同時削弱了傳統新聞編輯室的查證機制，使個人意見節目更加缺乏事實核查的結構性約束。
俄羅斯國營媒體的內容策略轉型：RT 邀請美國知名異議媒體人進行長時間深度訪談，反映俄羅斯國家媒體從冷戰時期的直接宣傳模式，轉向一種更精細的「平台化」策略——提供西方主流媒體不願觸及的論述空間，以此吸引全球觀眾並建立合法性。對俄羅斯而言，此策略以極低的成本獲得了在美國政治話語中的影響力。對國際媒體產業而言，這提出了深刻的倫理問題：在什麼條件下，與國家宣傳機構的合作是可以接受的？當言論自由與地緣政治宣傳之間的界線變得模糊時，記者與媒體管理層需要比以往更清晰的倫理框架。
媒體信任崩潰與受眾再部落化：節目中 Carlson 與 Sanchez 反覆提及「說真話」的勇氣，以及主流媒體對異議的壓制，這反映了更深層的媒體信任危機。當受眾對傳統媒體的信任度持續下降時，他們不會轉向更中立的資訊來源，而是轉向那些公開承認自身立場、甚至標榜「對抗體制」的媒體人格。這種再部落化意味著，未來媒體競爭的核心不再是「客觀性」或「專業性」，而是「真誠性」的表演——即主持人是否被受眾感知為「真正相信自己說的話」。「真誠性」已成為替代媒體時代的核心競爭力，這對以客觀性為基礎的新聞式報導模式構成了根本性挑戰。
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0:00 Hey everybody, I'm Rick Sanchez. I'm so 0:01 glad that you're there. You know, uh, 0:03 usually around this time, what we do is 0:06 we, uh, present, uh, the day's news and 0:08 a nice little introduction, but we're 0:10 going to be doing something a little 0:11 different [music] today. I want to thank 0:13 you guys for being there. You know, 0:14 we're reaching like 10 to 20 million 0:16 people a week now from all over the 0:17 world who are checking in to have this 0:20 conversation that we have every day. And 0:22 it's uh, it's it's really important for 0:24 us to be able to do that. Uh today 0:26 though, what we want to do is we want to 0:28 introduce somebody who is uh well let's 0:31 just say a special guest and and and 0:33 frankly back in 2004 I was working at 0:36 CNN. I had just been hired and this 0:39 gentleman had a show on CNN as well and 0:42 it was called Crossfire and he was on 0:43 the air with Paul Begala and uh they did 0:46 a political show and CNN had hired me 0:49 because they wanted me to go on the air 0:50 right away because it was this giant 0:52 hurricane which was about to hit parts 0:54 of Florida. I had a record for covering 0:57 hurricanes. So they said, "Get on the 0:59 air. We need you on the air right away." 1:01 I I wasn't even supposed to start yet. 1:03 So they threw me on the air and lo and 1:06 behold, the very first show that I did 1:08 when I was on CNN was on Crossfire with 1:11 Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson. Tucker 1:14 Carlson at the time was working there. I 1:16 ended up working with him at CNN. I then 1:18 worked with him as well at Fox News. So 1:21 over the years we we've had kind of uh 1:24 parallel paths in the media which is 1:27 significant because being in the media 1:29 at CNN as you know for me ended up not 1:32 so well. Uh in many ways Fox was kind of 1:36 the same way. I it it almost becomes to 1:39 a certain extent like working at what 1:41 they call state media. You get a sense 1:44 that the message that they want you to 1:46 share is not exactly the message that 1:49 you want to share. And when you go 1:51 outside of that message, you often times 1:54 are castigated for it. I was castigated 1:57 for it, as many of you know, and and so 2:00 was Tucker when he was fired from uh Fox 2:03 News. But since he's been fired from Fox 2:06 News, he started doing something in the 2:08 alternative media space. He's now become 2:11 very likely the most watched alternative 2:15 media news personality in the entire 2:18 world. He had good numbers when he was 2:20 at uh Fox News, but his numbers now far 2:24 exceed whatever he was doing when he was 2:26 at Fox News. So, this is really what 2:30 makes the difference for him. And since 2:33 he's been doing this, he's not just been 2:36 a purveyor of information, which is what 2:38 oftenimes we describe ourselves as what 2:41 we do. He's gone further. What he's 2:44 actually doing now is creating something 2:47 which is almost uh a movement in the 2:50 United States. Let me show you this 2:51 picture. There's a picture of Tucker in 2:54 his home with some of the people who 2:55 have joined him. And these are the 2:57 mavericks. These are the people in the 2:59 United States who are saying we've got 3:01 to come up with something where things 3:03 change. It's not about any one president 3:06 or any one party. It's about the fact 3:09 that too much of the messaging in the 3:11 United States has nothing to do with 3:13 what's good for the people of the United 3:16 States, you know, and and there you see 3:18 Marjgery Taylor Green and there you see 3:20 uh Thomas Massie and there you see Joe 3:22 Kat with Tucker hosting them and uh 3:25 their wives as well. And what seems to 3:28 be happening in the United States for 3:29 the first time in my lifetime is the 3:33 general message is we've got to come up 3:35 with something new. Something that 3:38 allows us to take care of the people of 3:41 the United States, which is more 3:43 important than the politicians, more 3:45 important than the donors, more 3:47 important than special interests. And 3:49 and this is really the the the general 3:52 message that Tucker Carlson has been 3:55 sharing. And by the way, sure these are 3:58 messages that you hear from time to time 4:00 from people in the political world and 4:02 people in the media, but more often than 4:05 not, it turns out to be nothing more 4:07 than sloganering. 4:09 I get a sense from my conversations with 4:12 Tucker, from the texts that we share 4:14 from time to time, from the interview he 4:16 has done with me, from the conversations 4:18 that we have done in the past that 4:20 Tucker is doing this because he truly 4:23 believes it, because it's in his heart 4:25 of hearts, because he he he it's not 4:28 because he wants to enrich himself. It's 4:30 not because he needs more fame. He has 4:33 all of those things. It's because he 4:35 truly believes that we need to turn the 4:37 page as a country, as Americans, and 4:40 start doing things that are good for the 4:43 American people, right? And and this is 4:47 one of the most important messages that 4:49 can be shared now. And he is 4:51 consistently carrying that message night 4:54 in and night out on his show. Let me 4:56 show you something. This is a 4:58 conversation I had recently because I 5:00 think what this goes to is the kind of 5:03 respect that Tucker has gotten certainly 5:06 from me as a result of our friendship 5:08 and working together as colleagues and 5:10 as journalists, but from other people as 5:12 well. Here's an interview that I 5:14 recently did with Candace Owens. Candace 5:17 came here to Moscow. We sat down and I 5:20 asked her a question. Listen to her 5:23 response. Take a listen. 5:27 You may have heard this, you may not 5:28 have heard this, but there's a buzz out 5:30 there in America that you would make a 5:33 great next president of the United 5:36 States. I apologize for asking, but 5:38 >> No, you're fine. I I really don't have 5:40 an interest in running for office 5:42 because there is just too much 5:44 inauthenticity, also, you know, the 5:46 great let down of Trump. Um, I would be 5:48 interested in in strongly getting behind 5:50 someone like Tucker Carlson, though. Um, 5:51 and so I would and so I would love for 5:53 him to run and I uh would 5:56 >> create the dynamic that me and Charlie 5:58 had and run all over to help him get 6:00 elected because he 6:01 >> and Tucker was also very fond and 6:03 friendly with with with Charlie Kirk. 6:04 >> He was and to see him be one of the lone 6:08 voices. I would also say Megan Kelly who 6:10 told the truth about Charlie shifting 6:12 perspectives toward the end 6:13 >> uh just only further committed me uh to 6:16 the and he's also at a great uh place in 6:18 his life. His children are older. Um, I 6:20 I would gratefully um get behind someone 6:25 >> like Tucker Carlson. 6:26 >> See, I found that fascinating. Joining 6:28 us now is uh none other than Tucker 6:30 Carlson. Tucker, thanks so much for 6:31 joining us. My god, you're so nice to 6:33 spend time with us. You're such a such a 6:35 good friend. And by the way, I am so 6:37 happy. I was just sharing with our 6:39 audience what kind of success you've had 6:41 since you left Fox News or or were left 6:44 by Fox News. 6:46 >> Yes, I was. 6:48 >> And I'm just so happy. Congratulations 6:50 on your success. You've done great. 6:53 >> There's uh as I know you know being 6:56 fired is one of the great blessings very 6:58 often. You know I would have stayed 7:00 there forever but so thank thank God 7:02 they fired me. 7:03 >> I just showed Candace Owens. she was 7:04 here and I had a conversation with her 7:06 and I said, "You know, Candace, there's 7:07 a lot of people who are talking about 7:09 the fact that you would be a great 7:10 leader cuz you're so courageous and 7:13 would you consider running for 7:14 president?" And she said, "No, but I 7:16 would consider being with or backing 7:18 Tucker Carlson if he ran for president." 7:20 I I don't know if you heard her say 7:22 that, but uh what do you make of 7:24 >> Not until right now. 7:25 >> Really? 7:27 >> She said that she said that about you. 7:29 She said she wants you to be president 7:30 and if you run for president, she'll 7:32 join you in any way that you need her. 7:34 That's something. 7:36 >> Well, I mean, it's really a reflection 7:38 on the poverty of our politics, how bad 7:41 our political class is. I mean, I'm a 7:43 podcaster. I've never been elected to 7:45 anything. I've never really run 7:48 anything. So, if we're in a place where 7:50 people are sincerely saying someone like 7:52 me should take charge, that tells you a 7:54 lot about the people who are in charge. 7:55 >> Yeah. 7:56 >> They're totally unworthy of the offices 7:57 they hold. And I then and that's so 7:59 clearly true and you know that because 8:01 they're running the United States into 8:03 the ground both domestically and 8:06 internationally. Our empire is 8:07 collapsing. We're on the brink of a 8:09 third world war and our country is 8:10 getting poor. So anyone responsible for 8:13 that is by definition well in my view a 8:15 criminal but at minimum incompetent and 8:19 just not qualified to to do what he's 8:22 doing. 8:23 I just showed a picture of you with Joe 8:25 Cat and Thomas Massie and Marjgerie 8:27 Taylor Green in your home. Great, great 8:29 picture, by the way. Everybody looks 8:31 happy and it looks like you're having a 8:34 conversation over a meal, which is, you 8:35 know, a pretty cool thing. What's the 8:37 meaning behind this? Is Candace on to 8:41 something here? Are you thinking about 8:43 creating something? 8:46 >> Well, I'm um not planning to run for 8:48 president, that's for sure. But those 8:50 are people, Marjgerie, Joe, Thomas 8:54 Massie. I mean, those are three people 8:56 who I think understand the moment we're 8:58 in. And the moment we're in is is pretty 9:00 simple. I think a lot of Americans have 9:02 realized that the Democratic and the 9:04 Republican party agree with each other 9:07 on the biggest issues that is the 9:09 economy and foreign policy and highlight 9:12 their minor differences in order to hide 9:14 that fact from the rest of us. and and 9:17 and moreover that actually the big 9:19 decisions of the US government are not 9:20 made by elected officials. They're made 9:22 by the permanent bureaucracy, the deep 9:24 state. That's a fact. I've watched it. 9:25 So that's not democracy. That's not And 9:29 by the way, they're not doing a good 9:30 job. You know, it'd be one thing if you 9:31 had a a non-democratic system. There are 9:34 plenty of them in the world. There are 9:35 lots of monarchies that are run pretty 9:36 well. 9:37 >> Yeah. 9:38 >> You would say, well, okay, it's not a 9:39 democracy, but at least it works. We 9:42 have the worst of all systems. It's not 9:43 a democracy, and it doesn't work. And so 9:46 clearly we need an alternative and I 9:48 have no idea what that will be. But 9:50 there will be an alternative because 9:52 this is not acceptable. 9:54 >> I've almost gotten to the I don't know 9:55 about you, but you know, one of the 9:58 things that we've always prided 9:59 ourselves on as Americans is that we got 10:02 to elect a new person every four years. 10:04 So the American people voted and chose 10:07 somebody and that person went in there. 10:08 We say now it's going to get better. But 10:10 it never gets better. Which which makes 10:12 me wonder if is it really a democracy if 10:15 no matter who you put in there, they do 10:17 the same damn thing that the guy before 10:19 them did? Is isn't that really more a 10:21 description of like a totalitarian 10:24 system? Maybe even a dictatorship. Just 10:26 cuz you change the person doesn't mean 10:28 you changed the system. 10:30 Well, I think it's even worse than that 10:31 because it's a fraud. At least if you 10:34 had a strong man, which I don't want at 10:36 all. I'm an American. 10:38 >> I believe in the sovereignty of the 10:39 individual. Um, but if you had that, at 10:41 least you would know what you had. You 10:44 you wouldn't be under illusions that you 10:46 had choice. And and I would say it's not 10:49 just that the United States has 10:50 declined. It's declined in exactly the 10:52 same way that Europe, Canada, Australia, 10:55 and New Zealand have declined. In 10:57 exactly the same way. the same 10:58 demographic collapse, birth rate 11:00 collapse, the same sort of official 11:03 state atheism, 11:05 the same mass migration, the same 11:08 concentration of wealth in a tiny number 11:10 of hands. Like, it's a recognizable 11:12 pattern. It's not just the United 11:14 States, it's the West, and particularly 11:16 the English-speaking West has been 11:18 destroyed. And I don't think it's an 11:20 accident. I don't think it's organic at 11:21 all. I mean, clearly it's not. It's 11:23 happening in all these different 11:24 countries since the end of the Second 11:25 World War. The supposed victors of the 11:27 war have all been destroyed in exactly 11:30 the same way. What is that? Now, I'm not 11:32 sure I understand the answer fully, but 11:34 I'm pretty good at pattern recognition 11:36 and I and I'm telling you it's of a 11:37 piece and it's totally wrong and it's 11:40 resulted in the suffering and death of a 11:42 lot of people. And so, to the extent I 11:45 can have any control, clearly I have no 11:47 control over anything. I couldn't stop 11:48 the Iran war, but I'm still going to 11:51 keep trying because I think this is so 11:53 immoral. 11:55 >> Moral. That's There you go again. You 11:57 use that word a lot. You know, 11:59 >> yes, I I I think you're on to something. 12:02 I mean, you know what our defense budget 12:04 was in like the 1950 was about 13 14 12:07 billion. Today, it's almost $2 trillion. 12:11 And our defense was better back then 12:14 than it is today. Because back then it 12:17 was based on a need. It was existential. 12:19 It was moral. It was about we have to 12:21 come together to defend our country. I 12:23 don't think that's what it's about 12:24 today. 12:26 Well, it's no longer the defense 12:27 department. It's the department of war. 12:29 And so that change in name tells you 12:33 everything about the change in 12:34 orientation. What's the point of a 12:35 standing army? The point of a military, 12:37 the point of spending the majority of 12:39 your discretionary budget on the 12:40 military, it's to defend yourself, your 12:42 nation, to keep your country from being 12:44 invaded. Oh, too late. We already were 12:46 invaded by migrants, over 50 million of 12:49 them, in the past 5 years. So, no, there 12:54 was no effort to defend the United 12:55 States against an actual invasion. 12:58 Defense is not the point of our 12:59 military. Now, it's war. Well, by the 13:02 way, civilized people detest war because 13:04 it results in the deaths of innocents. 13:06 And so why would you want a department 13:08 of war? No, you want a department to 13:09 defend your people, your women and your 13:12 children, to be a lot more precise about 13:14 it. Your women and your children. 13:15 Defending them is the point of a 13:17 military. That's the only point. And 13:19 that's of course no longer the point of 13:20 ours. And so that right there tells you, 13:23 you know, we're leaving the land of the 13:25 legitimate and and entering the world of 13:28 the criminal. 13:28 >> And so much of this is about the war, 13:30 though. You just talked about 13:31 immigration. Part of the reason we have 13:33 immigration in the United States is 13:35 because of needless, stupid wars where 13:37 we go and we disrupt the lives of people 13:39 who live in other countries who then 13:40 feel like they have no choice but to 13:42 leave their countries. A perfect example 13:44 of that is Guatemala back in the 1940s, 13:46 pardon me, the 1950s with our bands. We 13:48 we take a guy out who's democratically 13:50 elected because we want to give some 13:52 kind of power to some American oligarchs 13:55 and then we start a civil war where some 13:58 100,000 people die and then all the 14:00 people leave and come to the United 14:02 States and now we're mad that they came 14:03 to the United States. What the hell do 14:04 we expect them to do? Right? 14:07 >> It's a very well observed and understood 14:12 phenomenon. Invade the world, import the 14:15 world, and it's been going on. 14:16 >> Yes. for many many decades in the United 14:19 States. And so at this point, it's not 14:21 an accident. So if you if if the very 14:24 people in this administration who are in 14:26 charge of protecting our border 14:29 >> are pushing a war in say Latin America, 14:31 invading Venezuela for some reason and 14:34 arresting its president for some reason. 14:36 Totally insane. Or what they're doing in 14:37 Cuba right now, or what they just did in 14:39 Iran in February. Those people know that 14:41 the result of all of those conflicts is 14:44 going to be mass migration into the 14:45 United States and Europe. So, it's not 14:47 like they it's not like they can claim 14:48 ignorance. They know what the effects 14:49 are. So, you have to sort of wonder 14:51 maybe that is the point. And then you 14:53 watch what just happened in Spain where 14:55 Spain gets sideways with the government 14:56 of Israel and all of a sudden it gets 14:58 invaded from North Africa and the 15:02 Israelis like, "Yeah, we did that." Oh, 15:05 so maybe mass migration is used as a 15:07 weapon. Well, of course it is. It always 15:08 has been. It has been since the Mongols 15:11 swept across the step into Russia. It 15:14 has always been it. The Bible describes 15:16 it repeatedly throughout the Old 15:17 Testament. Massion, the replacement of 15:20 one population by another is a tool of 15:22 war. It's an act of war. And that's 15:25 happening now. And it's happening to the 15:27 United States and to the West without 15:29 kind of our understanding of what's 15:30 happening. Like, oh, this just happens. 15:32 Maybe they're responding to a labor 15:34 shortage. I don't think so. This is an 15:36 effort to end these countries, these 15:38 historic nations, and they want to do it 15:40 to Russia. They hate Russia. Well, why 15:42 do they hate Russia so much? Well, I 15:44 think it's very much related to the 15:45 fundamentals of Russia. Maybe being the 15:47 last big white Christian country on the 15:49 planet is a dangerous thing to be. I 15:52 mean, I'm not Look, I don't want to 15:54 believe these things. I never did 15:56 believe them. But watching carefully for 15:58 a long time has convinced me that a lot 16:00 of the wacko fringes darkest suspicions 16:04 may have some truth in them. Because 16:06 what's the other answer? Why would we be 16:07 at war with Russia? What? How many 16:09 Americans want a war with Russia? That 16:11 was not on our list of options in the 16:14 last election. Vote for this guy. We'll 16:16 get a war with Russia. Nobody wants 16:17 this. But our leaders want it. And you 16:19 have to ask why. Ever since I talked to 16:22 you about Biden for some reason or the 16:24 people who work with Biden forcing me to 16:27 not be able to practice my craft in 16:29 America, I have come and spent some time 16:31 in Russia and in other places, but I've 16:33 gotten to know the Russian people and 16:36 and I'll share something with you cuz 16:38 you know, we're friends and I can tell 16:40 you this. I I thought when I got here, 16:43 people would say, "You're an American 16:44 and we can't stand you for what you're 16:46 doing to us and for attacking us and for 16:49 whatever else they may perceive that we 16:51 were doing which may have been an 16:53 injustice." 16:54 It's just the opposite. They love 16:56 America. They love our pol they they 16:59 love our culture. When you walk into a 17:01 you were here, when you walk into a mall 17:03 in Russia, you see American names, 17:06 American slogans, American ideas, you 17:09 hear American songs that they're playing 17:11 in the background, and yet um it seems 17:15 funny cuz they've never asked us for 17:17 anything. We don't send money to Russia, 17:20 but we send it to all these other 17:21 countries. It almost seems peculiar that 17:25 we would treat people who are not 17:27 meaning any harm to us that way. I don't 17:30 get it. How would you explain that? 17:34 >> Well, I would just correct you on one 17:35 point. I agree with everything you said 17:37 except when you said they don't ask us 17:38 for anything. They did ask President 17:40 Putin asked to join NATO in 2000. He 17:42 asked President George W. Bush to join 17:44 NATO. The Defensive Alliance designed to 17:47 keep Russia under control. Russia asked 17:50 to join it. At which point you say to 17:51 yourself, "Okay, we're done here. We've 17:53 succeeded. The people we thought were 17:55 enemies are now our friends." Like, why 17:57 wouldn't you want Russia in NATO? That's 17:59 like the number one thing you would 18:00 want. That's the whole point of NATO is 18:01 to get Russia to behave like the West. 18:03 Well, okay. Now they're asking to be 18:05 part of it. And we turned them down. 18:07 George W. Bush turned them down 18:09 >> along apparently under the spell of 18:12 Condisa Rice, his national security 18:14 adviser. And it's like at that point you 18:16 really that's the most revealing fact of 18:18 the last 30 years in my opinion. 18:21 >> We want a war with Russia. And the 18:23 people pushing this believe that somehow 18:24 they own Russia. Maybe because their 18:26 ancestors live there or something. I 18:27 don't understand the psychology, but 18:29 they think they have a right to control 18:30 what happens in Russia, how it's 18:31 governed, and they would like to break 18:32 up Russia and they clearly would like 18:35 the resources of Russia. I mean, they've 18:37 al they've said this. 18:38 >> So, if you're Russian, for the Russian 18:41 perspective is this is not a joke. It's 18:42 not about some oblasts in Eastern 18:44 Ukraine. It's about your survival as a 18:47 nation. So, I guess what I'm saying is 18:49 as an American, I am very concerned that 18:52 we are pushing Russia toward a third 18:55 world war. And I think that we are and I 18:57 think it's a lot closer than most 18:58 Americans understand. No one's paying 19:00 any attention at all in the United 19:01 States. Just so you know, in case you 19:02 haven't been here recently, they're 19:04 thinking about their lives. They're 19:06 thinking about to the extent they think 19:07 about the rest of the world. They're 19:08 thinking about Iran. They are not 19:10 thinking about what's happening in 19:11 Eastern Europe. And my view as someone 19:15 who's talking to a bunch of people is 19:16 that we are closer than we've ever been 19:18 to a global conflict over this war with 19:21 Russia. And the reason is really simple. 19:22 The United States is waging a war 19:24 against Russia. Most Americans don't 19:26 know that. And if that continues, I'm 19:28 very concerned that this could get 19:30 completely out of control and kill a lot 19:33 of people and destroy the United States. 19:35 So, I'm not for that. Why would I be for 19:37 that? I'm not. 19:38 >> Russia's very imperfect, just like you 19:40 are and I am and every country in the 19:42 world is in many ways, of course. Right. 19:45 But generally speaking, the things that 19:47 I have always been taught were very 19:49 American from the standpoint of our 19:52 culture and as you say, our morals, I 19:54 find here they're building more churches 19:56 here than we're building in the United 19:58 States. They they are they are relying 20:00 more on their Christian faith more than 20:04 I've seen in most places. Suzanne and I 20:06 this weekend went up to Uglitch and we 20:08 saw the the the sense of community built 20:13 around the church and what uh the 20:15 priests there were talking about and I 20:17 was saying, "Wow, this is something that 20:19 we we don't see so much in the United 20:21 States." Russians, I find, are looking 20:25 for ways to improve their lives. They're 20:27 looking to build businesses. They're 20:29 encouraged to build families. And the 20:32 more they build their families, the more 20:33 the government gives them there there's 20:36 a univer there there's a health care 20:37 plan. They get maternity leave. Um they 20:41 get overtime pay required by you know 20:44 the government. We don't have these 20:46 things in the United States. So 20:48 >> yeah, 20:49 >> those things are important, aren't they? 20:52 >> Well, of course they are. And the 20:54 Russian government has also, I should 20:55 just add, banned witchcraft and GMO. So 20:58 [laughter] I also support that. But it's 21:01 not even a qu and I I agree strongly 21:03 with what you're saying. I think Russia 21:05 is a beautiful country. It's amazing 21:06 country. My favorite country I've ever 21:08 visited. I've been a couple of times. I 21:09 hope to come more. 21:10 >> Yeah. 21:11 >> But that's not why I'm so agitated or 21:13 why my voice is rising or why I suddenly 21:15 feel so emotional. What makes me 21:17 emotional is how pointless this is. 21:19 There is no critical American interest 21:21 that is served by having a war with 21:23 Russia. And in fact, all of our critical 21:25 interests are threatened by that. It is 21:27 deranged. We did not need to do this. 21:29 Most Americans don't want this. They 21:32 definitely don't want to live with the 21:34 consequences of continuing to do it, 21:35 which are profound. And the only reason 21:37 we're doing this is because our 21:39 leadership class, which is illegitimate 21:41 and demonstrabably terrible at their 21:43 jobs, wants it for whatever sick weird 21:47 reason. And you know, who knows what 21:49 those reasons are, but they are totally 21:51 determined to do this against the will 21:52 of the American people and against the 21:54 interests of America. And so it just it 21:57 drives me crazy because this does not 21:59 need to happen at all. Th 22:01 >> this is the thing I've always gotten 22:02 from you and one of the reasons I've 22:04 really come to and I don't mean to sound 22:08 schlocky or anything, but I've really 22:09 come to respect you as a as as a 22:11 colleague and as a friend is your 22:13 message is always consistent and it's 22:15 this. We need to get back to taking care 22:19 of the interests of the American people 22:22 because with each passing year, we're 22:24 getting away from that. That's what I 22:25 hear you say over and over again. And we 22:28 see it in Iran. We see it in our 22:30 relationship with Israel. We see it with 22:32 what's going on in Ukraine and in other 22:35 places as well. H how do we get there? 22:38 And why did we lose that perspective? 22:41 Well, because I think and I didn't used 22:44 to think this, but I I have been led to 22:47 this conclusion by the things that I 22:49 have seen up close, not just read about, 22:51 but watched personally. I think that the 22:54 United States government, which is the 22:55 largest human institution in history, 22:58 there's more people and more funding 22:59 than any human institution ever, 23:02 >> has been completely hijacked by people 23:04 who are using the United States for 23:06 their own purposes, who have no real 23:08 interest in the United States and its 23:10 future, who aren't tied to its past, and 23:13 who are basically just wearing it as a 23:15 skin suit in order to who knows what, 23:17 lots of things, but none of them in the 23:20 interest of the United States. I really 23:22 think it's a very simple question of a 23:24 bad leadership class. Like we don't have 23:26 good leaders and and we know this from 23:29 living in families. When you have a 23:30 strong father who loves his children in 23:33 general, you have a thriving family. I 23:35 mean things can happen of course but 23:38 most of the time the love of a strong 23:40 father is enough to create a happy 23:43 thriving family. And that is true with 23:45 countries as well. And we don't have 23:47 that. And I wish we did. I pray that we 23:49 will but we don't. And that is really 23:51 kind of the whole story right there. 23:54 >> Well, that's because it seems to me that 23:56 every four years half of the country 23:58 decides that one party is good and the 24:01 other guy's bad. Like right now it's 24:03 going to be it's going to be Trump is 24:05 bad. Before it was Biden is bad, Obama. 24:09 But you you're not getting anything 24:11 different no matter who ends up in 24:12 office. So maybe there's something wrong 24:15 with the process, right? 24:17 Well, I agree with that. And you're 24:19 encouraged, and this is poisonous, and 24:21 I've played a big role in it over the 24:23 years, and I'm shamed. I'm ashamed of 24:24 it. Me, too. But you're encouraged to 24:26 hate your fellow Americans. 24:29 >> And you're encou I mean, someone said to 24:30 me the other day, like, what are you 24:31 talking about a third party? You're 24:32 going to get AOC elected. And I'm like, 24:34 I don't want Alexandria Kaziocorte. 24:36 She's clearly unqualified and silly and 24:39 like, I'm not for her, of course, and 24:40 she doesn't like whites and I'm, you 24:42 know, obviously against that. But I I 24:45 you're you're what you're trying to do 24:46 here is what you always try and do and 24:48 what I have played a role in doing which 24:49 is convincing people that my side might 24:52 not be great but the other side is evil. 24:54 And that's just a lie. The truth is it's 24:57 not the differences between us that are 25:00 the problem. It's the consensus at the 25:02 top. It's the collusion against the 25:05 American people by the leadership of 25:06 both parties against the interest of the 25:09 majority of both parties that is the 25:11 true crime here. And you'll notice, by 25:13 the way, Trump leads us into this war in 25:16 Iran. The public doesn't want it at all. 25:18 >> Of course not. 25:19 >> And guess who doesn't protest it? The 25:22 leadership of the Democratic Party. Why? 25:23 Because they're for it, too. So, that 25:25 just kind of tells you everything. That 25:27 for me was the most radicalizing thing 25:28 I've seen in 35 years of covering 25:30 American politics. Chuck Schumer was not 25:32 mad about the war, the regime change war 25:36 with Iran, because he's in favor of it. 25:39 Yeah, 25:39 >> he and the Republican leadership are on 25:41 the same page on the biggest question of 25:43 my lifetime. 25:45 >> Right. 25:45 >> So, they'll criticize Trump about trans 25:47 issues, but they won't criticize him 25:49 about this. 25:50 >> Exactly. [laughter] Exactly. That's 25:52 exact. No, no, that is that is literally 25:54 true. Yeah. Let's fight about 25:56 transgenderism. Well, obviously 25:57 transgenderism is sad and absurd and an 26:00 offense against nature and a middle 26:01 finger to Christianity and God. I get 26:03 all that. I I believe that. I'll always 26:05 know that that's true. Is that the 26:07 pivotal question in America on on the 26:10 planet? No, of course not. It's a 26:11 sideshow created to distract you from 26:14 what's actually happening, which is a 26:17 total takeover of the United States by 26:19 people who don't care about the United 26:21 States. I I was kind of forced into this 26:23 position to be a kind of uh journalist 26:26 that travels the world and goes to China 26:28 and goes you and I have talked about 26:30 this and in many ways I've grown and I 26:32 and I've gotten to better understand the 26:34 world which is what I think we owe 26:36 ourselves and our families and our 26:38 communities and our God to to learn to 26:40 to to make ourselves exactly uh wiser as 26:43 as we get older and man I'm getting 26:45 older. Um, one of the things that I see 26:48 is that the world now looks at us in 26:51 ways where we weren't looked at before. 26:56 And I see this development of these 26:58 bricks countries. I talked to people in 27:00 India and I talked to people in the 27:02 Middle East and I talked to people in 27:03 China and and in Russia and it's almost 27:06 like they're coming together and forcing 27:09 uh some kind of coalition. not based on 27:12 what they want to do because they don't 27:14 like the United States, but it's based 27:16 almost, they tell me, on the fact that 27:18 the United States is forcing them to do 27:20 that. Um, 27:22 >> of course, 27:23 >> Americans don't get that and most 27:25 politicians don't get that. But we're 27:26 going to need to understand that at some 27:28 point. The power of the global south, 27:30 the power of these countries, the 27:31 numbers that they have, the GP, you 27:33 know, the GDPs that they have, those 27:35 things are important. Why don't we get 27:38 it? uh because we're imprisoned by our 27:42 own ignorance and I have been for I mean 27:45 I and I grew up in a family where my dad 27:47 worked abroad for the US government. So 27:48 I felt like and we traveled a lot so I 27:50 felt like I had a more global 27:51 perspective but I really didn't. 27:53 >> Yeah. 27:53 >> And it was only when I began traveling 27:55 for weeks or months at a time and really 27:58 spending time in countries and talking 27:59 to people in those countries that I 28:00 understood my own country better and it 28:03 it it increased my love for my country. 28:05 I love America more. I don't have 28:06 another passport. I'm not going anywhere 28:08 until they expel me, I guess. But I 28:10 would never leave the United States. I 28:11 really love the United States. But I see 28:13 it in context and I understand that what 28:16 we're looking at is a conflict between 28:19 countries that believe in the future, 28:20 that have a hope for the future, and the 28:23 West, which has really lost all 28:24 confidence in the future and doesn't 28:26 think about Look, anyone who is risking 28:28 nuclear I'm trying not to use bad words 28:30 on your show, nuclear war. 28:32 >> Yeah. 28:33 >> Clearly doesn't care about the future. 28:35 That is nihilism. That is a belief in 28:37 nothing. Nothing matters. Nothing is 28:39 real. There is no God. All that matters 28:42 is right now. That is the attitude that 28:45 has seized our leadership class. And you 28:47 know that because they're literally 28:48 flirting with nuclear the various I've 28:50 interviewed Russians on this show, my 28:52 show. Yeah. 28:53 >> And they'll come on and say, "Boy, you 28:55 know, we're going to start lobbing 28:57 hypersonic or nuclear weapons into NATO 29:00 countries if you don't pull back a 29:01 little bit." 29:02 >> Now, you would think that would be, you 29:03 could say, well, oh, Russia's bad. Fine. 29:05 But it it doesn't matter. That's a real 29:08 threat and it makes sense. Of course, I 29:10 understand why that threat is there. If 29:12 you don't respond to that, if you just 29:13 ignore it and say, "Oh, they're they 29:15 don't mean it." Then you don't care 29:17 about the future or your children or the 29:19 prospect of having grandchildren or your 29:21 nation continuing. And that's the 29:23 mindset that they have. And I think it's 29:25 scary. Whereas a lot of the countries 29:28 you mentioned are literally we call them 29:31 developing countries for a reason 29:32 because they're developing. they are 29:34 building something brand new and they 29:37 care about what the next 50 or 100 years 29:39 look like. That to me is the main 29:41 contrast and it's very sad as an 29:44 American to see that. There 29:45 >> there was an incident here recently that 29:47 kind of I don't know it made me feel bad 29:51 because I'm a dad and I hate to see 29:54 children die. And uh there was a there 29:57 was a there was like a missile attack or 29:58 a drone attack on a beach uh in Russia 30:03 where families were gathered and they 30:04 were just having a holiday. I don't know 30:06 if we've got this video or not. If we 30:08 have it, you can show it, guys. If not, 30:09 no big deal, but you could actually see 30:11 the drone go and hit a beach where 30:13 children are building like sand castles. 30:15 There it is, Tucker. I don't know if 30:16 you've seen this. This just happened 30:18 last week. And four kids like building 30:20 sand castles with their families were 30:22 killed. Eight people were killed in 30:23 total. the number may be higher now, but 30:25 that it just doesn't seem like it makes 30:27 sense that the um these drones 30:31 manufactured by American companies, by 30:33 the way, and by British companies and by 30:34 French companies and by German companies 30:36 are constantly hitting civilians in 30:38 Russia. And this is not about whether 30:40 you're for Ukraine or Russia or whoever 30:42 you choose to like in this war. The idea 30:44 that you can take a drone on a beach and 30:46 kill families and children playing and 30:48 building sand castles, that's immoral. 30:51 It's wrong. Shouldn't happen. we should 30:53 know about it and we should ask it for 30:54 people to stop it as Americans. 30:57 >> I couldn't agree more. Um, and by the 31:00 way, those were targeted by the US 31:02 government. I mean, CIA gives the 31:04 targeting information to all this stuff. 31:06 And so, this is an American war against 31:08 Russia. And again, even if you hate 31:10 Russia, you can acknowledge that's crazy 31:14 behavior because what do you think 31:15 you're going to get if it continues? And 31:16 if I can just level one criticism at the 31:18 Russian government, 31:19 >> yeah, of course, 31:19 >> it's that this has been going on for a 31:21 long time. There have been drone attacks 31:23 on mainland Russia, including in Moscow, 31:25 for a long time, and assassinations in 31:27 Moscow as well. And in fact, I was there 31:30 two and a half years ago, and all of a 31:31 sudden, I'm driving by the Kremlin, and 31:32 it's on fire. And I asked like, "What is 31:34 that?" And they're like, "Oh, it's 31:35 nothing." So, the Russian government has 31:37 not wanted to acknowledge attacks within 31:40 Russia by the Ukrainians and NATO, and I 31:43 understand the thinking there, but I 31:44 think the effect of that has been that 31:46 people have no idea it's even happening. 31:49 And they also moreover don't know that 31:50 Ukraine has been taken over not by 31:52 Nazis. I I know everyone uses that. 31:54 They're all Nazis. They're Bolsheviks 31:55 actually. This is very much like the 31:58 Bolevik takeover. Takeover of Russia in 32:01 1917 by people who were mostly not 32:03 Russian and who had no interest in 32:06 Russia as a coherent country. And that 32:09 has happened in Ukraine and all the 32:12 familiar repression has followed. 32:14 elimination of freedom of speech, 32:16 freedom of movement, freedom of 32:18 religion, banning the biggest church in 32:20 Ukraine. It is a bolevik state and we 32:25 don't say that out loud. We pretend that 32:26 they're freedom fighters or whatever. 32:28 No, no, no. That country has descended 32:30 into darkness, into totalitarian 32:32 darkness. And we are funding it and we 32:35 are allowing this to happen. Meanwhile, 32:37 the actual nation of Ukraine, Ukrainian 32:39 people have been totally destroyed. 32:41 There is no Ukraine anymore because they 32:44 have been pulverized in the meat grinder 32:46 of this war that we're directing. So the 32:48 whole thing is like one of the great 32:49 tragedies of our age. But I just want to 32:52 say it for the third time. We are moving 32:54 toward a global conflict that will 32:56 destroy millions of people. And so 32:59 anyone pushing that is by definition 33:02 immoral. Obviously 33:04 >> there there's pictures there's another 33:06 set of uh videos that have been coming 33:08 out as well. And I I don't I don't know 33:10 how you feel about this. It's it's 33:11 really weird. It's almost like the idea 33:14 that somebody would go into a community 33:16 and start taking people off the streets 33:18 and you see their wives and their 33:19 children coming out and say, you know, 33:21 don't take my husband, don't take my 33:22 dad. But these are the pictures. This is 33:25 called forced mobilization and it's 33:27 taking place in Ukraine. And look, I get 33:29 it. They're running out of soldiers and 33:31 they need to do everything they do. And 33:32 maybe some of these people should have 33:34 volunteered and have been hiding or 33:36 something. But this just looks terrible 33:39 for the rest of the world that Ukraine 33:41 has to resort to fighting with people in 33:44 communities, taking them off the streets 33:45 and sending them to the front lines. 33:47 What do you make of this? 33:50 >> Well, I mean, it kind of undercuts the 33:51 whole argument that you hear in the 33:54 United States that Ukraine is defending 33:56 itself and the proud Ukrainian people 33:58 want to repel Russian aggression. Yeah, 34:00 >> I'm not saying the Ukrainians are 34:01 pro-Russian. I doubt most are. But if 34:04 the Ukrainian people don't support this 34:06 war, it is by definition illegitimate. 34:08 Ukraine has no sovereignty. It hasn't 34:10 since at least 2014 and probably it 34:13 probably never had sovereignty actually, 34:15 depending how you define it. But the 34:16 truth is Ukraine is not a nation. It is 34:19 a client state of NATO and the United 34:22 States, our leadership, and it is being 34:25 used as a tool to achieve an end. And 34:27 that end is the destruction of Russia. 34:29 Now again, as noted, why would we want 34:30 to do that? I have no idea. I think it's 34:32 bizarre and wrong, but that's what it 34:35 is. It's not an a sovereign country 34:37 fighting for its freedom. It is a poor, 34:41 pathetic, sad, destroyed country that we 34:44 destroyed. By the way, we're only here 34:46 in the first place because the Biden 34:48 administration and previous 34:49 administrations, including Bush, all 34:51 pushed Ukraine to join NATO and 34:54 therefore put nuclear weapons on 34:57 Russia's border. Like, why would you 34:58 ever want to do something like that? 35:00 Well, only if you wanted a war, would 35:02 you do that? Only if you wanted Russia 35:04 to respond with violence, which they 35:06 did, would you do that? Now, why would 35:08 you want Russia to respond that way? So, 35:10 you could have a war with Russia and 35:11 break up Russia because you hate the 35:13 idea of Russia. Again, nobody supports 35:16 this. I I think the majority of 35:18 Ukrainians in polls say they want an 35:20 end, a negotiated end to this war. 35:23 >> Americans don't support this. The only 35:24 people who support this are the deranged 35:26 leaders of the West. That's it. 35:28 >> Yeah. And by the way, Russians, I talked 35:30 to them obviously. I play golf on 35:32 weekends and some of my friends that I 35:34 play golf with, by the way, they're they 35:35 they get angry at Putin. They think 35:37 that, you know, uh he's not doing 35:39 enough. They they want him to respond in 35:42 kind to some of the threats and and and 35:45 they're like saying, "Well, you know, he 35:48 he needs to do this." And and you hear 35:50 it. So there there there's constant 35:52 conversation taking place. The other 35:54 thing I hear on the golf course and in 35:56 other places when I talk to drivers and 35:57 people around Moscow is they don't have 36:01 anything against the Ukrainian people. 36:03 They you don't hear this vile sense of, 36:06 oh, we're going to get those guys. Not 36:08 at all. As a matter of fact, you get a 36:11 sense that they feel like those are 36:14 that's that those are their brothers, 36:16 those are their cousins, that that that 36:17 they have a history with them. I mean, 36:19 an earnest sense of camaraderie with 36:22 Ukraine, a country they're at war with, 36:24 which is weird, right? 36:28 >> Well, right. So, everybody involved in 36:30 this, the populations of Ukraine, 36:32 Russia, and the United States are all 36:34 pawns in someone else's game, obviously. 36:37 >> So, why would you send a drone onto a 36:40 beach in Russia? Why would you blow up 36:42 its oil refineries? Why would you hit a 36:44 school? What you're doing, of course, is 36:47 trying to force Putin to react with 36:49 violence, force Putin to escalate in a 36:52 public way. So, the United States and 36:54 NATO are behind these attacks, as noted. 36:58 Most people in the West have no idea 37:00 they're even happening. So the point is 37:02 to push Putin into a place where he 37:05 cannot ignore this, where his population 37:09 and the different power centers within 37:10 Russia put so much pressure on Putin 37:12 that he has to respond to the hypersonic 37:14 missile into Warsaw or Hamburg or has to 37:20 hit a NATO country either with a 37:22 hypersonic weapon or some kind of 37:24 weapon, perhaps even a tactical nuclear 37:25 weapon. And at that point you can say, 37:27 "Oh, Putin's the aggressor." That's 37:29 exactly what's happening right now. And 37:31 I've made this case to a lot of people, 37:33 including policy maker, a lot of policy 37:34 makers in Washington. You have this 37:36 caricature of Putin as an absolute 37:38 dictator who can do whatever he wants, 37:39 who has total latitude in his decisions. 37:42 And that's not true of any leader. Every 37:45 leader rules by consensus. I don't care 37:46 if you're a king or a president or a 37:48 prime minister. I don't care if you call 37:50 yourself the messiah. You are still 37:52 operating within certain boundaries. And 37:56 those boundaries are the opinions of 37:57 other people with power in your country. 37:59 And so if Russians over time get upset 38:04 enough about these attacks, the 38:06 government of Russia will have to 38:07 respond, will have to escalate. And that 38:09 is the whole point. Trust me. 38:12 >> Yeah. They're they're angry. My sense is 38:14 that yes, they're angry. They think 38:16 Putin is too restrained. Um, and then 38:19 and and then they're also angry at the 38:22 people who they think are responsible 38:23 for these bombs. And 38:25 >> it's not Ukraine. 38:27 >> They're angry at the EU and NATO and 38:30 Brussels and the UK. That's who they're 38:32 angry at. They think it's Europe. 38:34 >> Is it really the EU and Nusles? But I I 38:36 know that Russians think that and of 38:38 course they lost 27 million people or 38:40 whatever in a war with some of these 38:41 countries. So I understand that there's 38:43 a lot of history here. However, do we 38:46 really think that the EU or even NATO 38:49 have sovereignty? That they're making 38:50 independent decisions that they're 38:52 acting in their own interests? Obviously 38:54 not. Do you think the population of 38:57 Germany wants this? Or even Britain? 38:59 Britain is the most warlike of all. But 39:01 do you really think they want this? Of 39:02 course they don't. They are also pawns 39:05 in whatever this is. And of course, it's 39:07 a great global realignment of power. As 39:10 the east rises and the west declines, 39:13 there has to be in the view of the 39:15 people mapping this out some 39:17 confrontation that just resets the 39:19 board, resets the international monetary 39:22 system, the terms of trade. All of this 39:23 stuff is going to be reset and the only 39:26 way to reset it is with a global war. 39:28 That's very obvious to me. So, I 39:30 understand the frustration, but let's 39:32 not let's let's be cleareyed here. 39:35 >> Europe has no ability to make 39:36 independent decisions. It's got American 39:38 troops on its soil. It has for 80 years. 39:40 You know what I mean? 39:42 >> It's it's about, if I can just throw out 39:44 a name, Palanteer. I mean, the guidance 39:47 for that drone we just saw hitting and 39:50 killing those children was done by 39:52 Palanteer. But Palanteer is not a 39:54 country. It's just some entity in the 39:56 United States that seems to wield a lot 39:58 of power. H how do you deal with that? H 40:01 how does how does Russia how does any 40:02 country deal with these sudden powerful 40:04 tech companies that are making these 40:06 incredible decisions that are 40:08 determining the future of our planet 40:11 essentially? 40:12 >> Well, I think you have to just 40:14 understand the nature of power. So power 40:16 follows capital. Like what is power? 40:18 It's the ability to affect change. It's 40:20 the ability to to get things done to see 40:22 your will enacted into into some 40:25 physical form, right? Yeah. So what gets 40:28 things done? Money. So what are the 40:30 global power centers? The global capital 40:33 centers of course. So if a country, 40:36 you know, has a democratic system and 40:39 elections and politicians and all that 40:41 stuff, but that country has, you know, 40:44 companies or [clears throat] individuals 40:45 within it who are billion or 40:48 trillionaires. Who's really got the 40:50 power? The voters? No, of course not. 40:52 Capital has the power always. That is 40:54 just a fact. And that's why it's a 40:56 pretty good idea if you want to continue 40:58 your democracy to make sure that elected 41:00 officials are more powerful than 41:02 companies. Otherwise, democracy is 41:03 itself a joke. 41:04 >> That's why you to his great credit like 41:08 tried to do that to some extent. I think 41:10 >> well Putin uh did something that I 41:13 almost wish 41:15 our leaders would do as Americans in the 41:18 1990s. He saw that these were there were 41:20 these oligarchs, whatever that means, 41:23 people who were very very very very 41:25 wealthy. I mean, they had enormous 41:26 amounts of wealth. They weren't paying 41:28 taxes and they were doing all kinds of 41:31 malfeasants. And he went to them and 41:33 said, "Either you pay taxes, you change 41:36 your ways, or you get the hell out of 41:37 here, or I'm going to put you in 41:38 prison." 41:40 The one of the reasons I, as I perceive 41:42 it, and you know, what do I know? But my 41:45 perception is people in Russia have 41:47 problems with Putin, sure, but they 41:50 generally like him. They want him to 41:52 stay in power. 80% say German polls. And 41:55 it's because he they feel like he has 41:59 their interest, especially because of 42:01 what he did in the 1990s when he did 42:03 that. 42:04 >> Well, exactly. No, I think that's I 42:06 think that's right. I mean, that will 42:08 not happen in the United States, at 42:09 least anytime soon. But you can't have, 42:13 look, someone's going to run your 42:14 country, your your society, your 42:16 civilization. Someone's always going to 42:17 be in charge. And the question is, who 42:19 is that person? Is that someone whose 42:22 job you have some control over like 42:25 through an election, or is it someone 42:28 you have no control over whatsoever, 42:30 like, I don't know, the guy who runs 42:32 Apple, right, or Google? 42:34 >> And so that's really your choice. Are 42:36 you going to have any say in how your 42:40 society is run or aren't you? And if you 42:42 are going to have say then it has to be 42:44 a political leader. Political leader has 42:47 to be more powerful than any oligarch. 42:50 >> And we don't have that. And and I and so 42:53 I but I would say that's true globally 42:54 in the west. And the only really the 42:56 only two countries I can think of where 42:59 there is and I'm not endorsing either 43:00 country and I don't live in one either 43:02 one. I'm not going to. But Russia and 43:04 China are two countries in which the 43:06 political leader is more powerful than 43:09 any business leader. So, you know, I 43:12 kind of wish we had that. 43:14 >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're right. 43:16 I went to China recently and I first, 43:18 it's funny because when I got there, I 43:20 thought everybody was going to be 43:21 frightened and scared of uh their 43:24 system, etc. And I remember I asked the 43:25 driver right away. I said, "What what do 43:27 you think of she?" Right. Um and he 43:29 said, "Oh, he's a princling. We don't 43:31 like this guy. we want to change. And I 43:33 thought, you know, this is no different 43:35 than in any other country everywhere 43:38 else. And and you go here and you'll go 43:39 to a bar and you ask people about Putin, 43:40 they go, I don't like him either. So, 43:42 you know, we we tend to think there's 43:44 this is an amazing, you know, autocratic 43:47 country where people are punished just 43:48 for their thoughts. They're not. We we 43:50 we kind of make 43:51 >> Well, here's a way to measure it. How 43:53 many people in Russia go to jail for 43:56 criticizing the government or government 43:59 policy on social media? And I actually 44:01 the numbers are public and I was amazed 44:03 to find out that three times as many 44:05 people in Britain which has a much 44:07 smaller population than Russia under 100 44:09 million. Russia's 150ish 44:12 three times as many Britons go to jail 44:15 for social media posts as Russians. 44:17 >> Yeah. 44:18 >> I'm not endorsing Russia, but I'm just 44:19 saying like which is the more 44:20 totalitarian country? Well, obviously 44:22 it's Britain. By definition, it's 44:24 Britain. You can watch British 44:26 television in Russia. You cannot watch 44:27 Russian television in Britain. That's 44:28 right. So, which is a more repressive 44:30 nation? It's really simple. These are 44:33 obvious non-rhetorical, noniological 44:36 measurements of reality. Who goes to 44:38 jail? What access to information do you 44:41 have? Right. 44:42 >> I was just thinking about when you were 44:44 talking about America's oligarchs, my 44:47 words, not yours. These really, really 44:49 wealthy, I guess, billionaires and 44:51 trillionaires who in many ways it could 44:54 be argued have more power than the 44:55 people who we elect. I would argue they 44:58 have much more power than the people who 45:00 we elect, but we'll leave that there. 45:02 What's particularly unique to the 45:04 American experience now is it's not just 45:06 those people, it's those people who are 45:09 now combined with an external force. And 45:12 that external force, I think, is Israel. 45:15 I think a lot of those people are not 45:16 only doing things on behalf of their 45:18 government and making more money, 45:20 they're also doing it on behalf of 45:22 another country that is not the United 45:24 States of America. and and I it it seems 45:28 like a uh an interlocking that can lead 45:31 to no place but a bad place for 45:34 Americans in general. I I've heard you 45:36 talk about this, but you brought it up 45:37 last night. I was watching you with uh 45:40 Hunter Biden, which fascinating 45:42 interview. I I texted you earlier about 45:44 it. Um and when he mentioned the fact 45:48 that his laptop was suddenly discovered, 45:50 I mean, what an interesting guy, by the 45:52 way, and he's finding his way. You said 45:56 something to him which I thought was 45:57 fascinating which I've never heard 45:58 before and here it is. Let's play that. 46:01 >> The allegation that there was abusive 46:04 minors proofing on the laptop that came 46:06 from the Israelis. I'm just telling you 46:08 that they came to me with that. So I 46:10 know that. And one of the things that 46:12 enraged me about the statement from 46:14 those sleazy intel guys is that they 46:17 blamed the Russians for it. Now maybe 46:18 the Russians had a hand in it, but it 46:19 was the Israelis who were pushing that 46:21 fact. Fact. I mean, literally to me, 46:24 they were pushing that so hard and all 46:25 the intel guys are like, "Oh, it's 46:26 Russia." It's like, "You lie. You lie." 46:29 Cuz they called me, I sent one of my 46:31 producers out to go meet with one of guy 46:35 connected to Netanyahu. They were they 46:37 were behind that. And I felt that 46:39 everybody in DC knew that, but there was 46:42 so much pressure never to criticize 46:43 Israel in any way that they were just 46:45 like, "It's the Russians. It's the 46:47 Russians. They're they're the ones 46:48 penetrating our political system." It's 46:49 like, you lie. 46:52 What does that say that they would do 46:55 that president's son? 46:58 >> Well, you c I mean it's it was an 47:01 amazing I mean I'll be honest that was 47:03 what five or six years ago, six years 47:06 ago I guess. 47:06 >> Yeah. 47:07 >> Um I didn't fully understand I mean I 47:10 never fully understand what's happening 47:11 when it's happening and often it takes 47:13 me years to understand it if I ever do. 47:15 So I only see bits and pieces of things, 47:17 but I it's just a fact and I worked at 47:21 Fox News at the time and I had a lot of 47:22 producers who still work for me. I mean 47:23 it just this happened. it people 47:26 connected to Netanyahu came to us and I 47:28 didn't think of Netanyahu as like an 47:30 enemy of mine or anything like that at 47:31 the time and said we have this 47:33 information from Hunter Biden's laptop 47:36 and it includes the abuse of minors or a 47:38 minor a specific minor and um anyway so 47:42 that that just happened and the next 47:43 thing you know all these disgusting 47:46 former intel officers are out there 47:47 saying it's Russian disinformation. Now, 47:50 here here's what I know. The laptop was 47:53 not, 47:54 you know, it didn't come from a laptop 47:56 repair shop. There was people, this was 47:59 in circulation before Hunter Biden even 48:01 supposedly dropped it off. I mean, I've 48:02 known this for 6 years. I knew that part 48:04 of the story was fake. I don't think 48:06 that John Paul McIac, the laptop repair 48:09 shop guy, who I've interviewed, very 48:11 nice man. I don't think he's in on it. I 48:13 think he genuinely believes that Tun 48:15 Biden left his laptop there. I get I'm 48:17 assuming that. But the truth is someone 48:19 pulled it off the cloud. Now some people 48:21 claim it was the Russian security 48:23 services that did that maybe. I have no 48:25 idea. All I know is that by the time it 48:28 came to me, who was a working 48:30 journalist, it was Israelis who came to 48:32 us to say here's this stuff about Hunter 48:35 Biden. And what was their motive? Well, 48:37 I think I don't think that Netanyahu 48:40 wanted Joe Biden to win. I I think it's 48:42 really clear he was a close ally of 48:44 Donald Trump and he didn't think it was 48:46 in Israel's interest or his personal 48:47 interest to have Biden as president. And 48:49 so he was interfering in American 48:51 politics. Not the first or last time 48:53 he's done that. 48:54 >> But we put up with that because no one 48:56 in America in American politics is ever 48:58 allowed to criticize Israel in any way. 49:00 >> Yes. 49:00 >> Because they're controlled by Israel. 49:02 Obviously, if you want to know who 49:03 controls you, who can't you criticize? I 49:05 mean, it's just a basic fact of life. 49:06 So, they are controlled by Israel and I 49:09 think have been for a long time. And 49:11 I've kind of ignored it for many, many 49:13 years because it didn't seem it was 49:15 offensive, but it didn't seem like it 49:17 was destroying the United States. But 49:18 this Iran war is destroying the United 49:20 States. And we got into this war because 49:22 we were pushed by the Israelis because 49:24 they have such total control over our 49:26 political process. It's a fact. They can 49:28 lie or call you names or you're a Nazi. 49:30 No. Okay, I'm not a Nazi, but even if I 49:33 were a Nazi, this is still true. It's a 49:35 fact. I saw it and everybody knows it. 49:38 So at this point it's like there's a 49:40 massive cost to this. It's hurting our 49:42 nation gravely and we have to break free 49:45 from it. Not because we hate Israel or 49:46 certainly not because we hate Jews. I 49:48 don't hate Jews at all and I don't hate 49:50 Israel for that matter. But you have to 49:53 have sovereignty particularly as a great 49:55 power or else you will be destroyed you 49:57 know 49:57 >> and that's just always true. 49:59 >> You're the things you are doing and the 50:02 things you are saying now Tucker are 50:04 courageous. I mean there's really no 50:06 other word. I say the same thing. It's 50:08 not just you, by the way. Candace Owens, 50:10 uh I think Marjorie Taylor Green, uh you 50:13 know, certainly Thomas Massie is a is a 50:15 super courageous guy. This guy's got 50:17 somebody throwing money at him every 50:18 day. He says, "No, I don't want it." 50:20 Right. I mean, that that's exactly that 50:22 that's that's moral, you know, courage. 50:26 That's all the things that my father and 50:28 your father taught us to be as men in 50:31 this world. And you know, it's funny 50:34 that there are so many others out there 50:37 who just fold. The the numbers that I've 50:39 seen recently seem to indicate that like 50:42 97% of the people in Congress 50:44 immediately take whatever thing whatever 50:47 is offered to them by Israel and other 50:49 donors, by the way. It's not just 50:50 Israel. What a terrible place for us to 50:53 be right now as a nation. That's 50:54 terrible. 50:56 Well, it's not simply that most 50:58 politicians are craven and greedy and 51:01 care only about money and not at all 51:02 about their constituents. That's bad 51:04 enough. But to see how 51:06 >> Thomas Massie and Marjorie Taylor Green 51:08 were treated. You know, you've got a 51:10 couple of honest, decent people. You may 51:12 disagree with them, but clearly Massie 51:15 and Marjorie are not in it for the 51:17 money. Obviously, they're not in it for 51:19 the money. They're in it because they 51:21 believe it. They're sincere. They care 51:22 about their constituents. They have 51:24 principles. They're generally very 51:26 honest people in my experience. I don't 51:28 think anyone could claim otherwise. They 51:30 were systematically 51:32 slandered and torn down and in Massiey's 51:35 case bounced out of Congress for telling 51:37 the truth. So that to me is the real 51:40 offense. It's not that some people are 51:41 corrupt. It's that honest people are 51:45 penalized or punished for being honest. 51:48 And if that is your system, it has to 51:50 change. A system like that is not a good 51:52 system. It's an evil system. We should 51:54 reward honesty and courage and decency 51:57 because those are the values that are 52:00 good and that we hope to embody and 52:02 represent. We love our country because 52:04 we think it's a good country and so it 52:06 has to remain a good country in order 52:08 for us to love it and be proud of it. 52:11 It's that simple. Well, you know, and 52:12 nothing is perfect and you acknowledge 52:14 as you said Putin not a perfect leader. 52:15 Okay. Well, who is? Yeah, 52:17 >> but you got to at least try to be honest 52:20 and decent. And you definitely are not 52:22 allowed to hurt people because they're 52:24 being honest. That is like a grave 52:26 offense in my opinion. 52:27 >> Yeah. And it's like the deal with uh 52:30 Israel in particular, and I think long 52:32 and hard about this because it's 52:34 affected my career, it affected your 52:35 career as well. Um, 52:38 the idea that because of October 7th, 52:42 they suddenly have a license to kill 52:46 some 16 to 18,000 children. There's no 52:50 way in the world that I or anybody else 52:52 should ever accept that. And it doesn't 52:54 mean that I hate Israel. It doesn't mean 52:56 I hate Jews. It doesn't mean any of 52:58 that. It just means why the hell are you 53:00 killing children? We cannot allow you to 53:03 do that. And certainly not with our 53:04 weapons. I mean, it's such a 53:06 clear-headed message. 53:09 >> Well, it's a message rooted in universal 53:11 standards. So, if something is wrong, 53:13 it's always wrong, no matter who does 53:14 it. So, cor this is the definition of 53:17 corruption. What is corruption? 53:18 Corruption is a second set of books. 53:20 It's a second set of standards. It's 53:22 okay for me to do it. It's not okay for 53:23 you to do it. That's corruption. 53:25 >> Yeah. 53:27 The opposite of that, the western ideal, 53:29 the basis of western civilization is the 53:31 idea that we are all governed by the 53:32 same standards because we're all created 53:34 by God. And those standards derive from 53:36 God. And even if you don't believe in 53:38 God, you can accept that universal 53:39 standards are the standards by which we 53:41 govern a country. That's called justice. 53:43 Justice is blind because we're not 53:45 judging you in the basis of who you are 53:46 or who your parents were. We're judging 53:48 you in the basis of what our rules are. 53:49 What's the law? And Israel, like every 53:53 nation on earth, like every person on 53:54 earth, is governed by those same 53:56 principles. It is immoral. It will 53:59 always be immoral to kill people who did 54:02 nothing wrong. That's why we don't just 54:04 execute people because we feel like it. 54:05 We have to bring them to court and prove 54:06 they did something worthy of execution. 54:08 And the same is true for wars. You don't 54:11 intentionally kill civilians. And if you 54:13 do, you're a criminal. So Israel is a 54:15 criminal state. Okay? There have been a 54:17 lot of criminal states in human history. 54:19 I don't think Israel is uniquely evil in 54:22 the history of the world. I think the 54:24 United States has done that. Russia has 54:25 done that. Every country has done that. 54:27 >> Yeah. 54:27 >> But what makes Israel different is that 54:29 you're not allowed to say it somehow. 54:31 Yeah. 54:31 >> Because the idea is that no, Israel 54:33 lives by separate rules. No, that's not 54:36 I will never accept that. And just 54:38 because you claim that God loves you 54:40 more than everybody else doesn't mean I 54:41 have to believe you. I don't believe 54:43 you. I think God created every single 54:45 person. And I think we're all subject to 54:47 exactly the same standards whether it's 54:50 a African country or Asian country, 54:52 Middle Eastern country or my country. 54:53 And when my country falls short, I'll 54:55 admit it and I feel sorrow about it. 54:57 >> But I'm not playing this game. Sorry. 55:00 >> You've been called an anti-semite so 55:02 many times recently I lost count. And 55:04 it's and it's terrible because I know 55:05 you're not an anti-semite and arguing 55:07 that children should not be killed is 55:10 not being an anti-semite. 55:12 >> Why do you do it? you you know you you 55:14 you've got I I know you you're you're 55:17 you're you're you're in a good place in 55:20 your life. U your children, your wife. 55:23 Uh by the way, did you have a grandkid 55:25 yet or are you going to have a grandkid? 55:27 >> No, but I I think they're working on it. 55:29 I have three married children, so 55:31 >> hopefully. 55:31 >> You told me recently we I was telling 55:33 you about Serena, our grandbaby, and you 55:35 said, "I'm so jealous of you." And I 55:36 thought that was really interesting. 55:38 >> But but you're doing all of these things 55:40 now. And to a certain extent, I mean, 55:42 you're right. Stepping into stepping on 55:43 a hornets's nest and in many ways 55:46 getting the kind of attention a lot of 55:48 people don't want. Why do you do it? 55:53 Cuz I can. Cuz I'm privileged. Because 55:56 through no fault of my own or 55:58 achievement of my own, I just like got 56:00 old enough and insulated enough from the 56:03 normal levers of control to say what I 56:06 really think is true. That's it. 56:07 >> Yeah. And because they pushed it too 56:09 far, I think specifically the neocons in 56:12 the the war lobby in my country pushed 56:16 the country toward its own destruction. 56:18 This Iran war, the war with Russia, 56:20 these are the things that will destroy 56:22 the United States. And I live here and 56:24 my family's been here, you know, for 350 56:27 years. And like I shouldn't I I don't 56:29 want to see my country destroyed. So 56:31 it's it's really they push too hard. 56:34 It's like just back off. I'm happy to 56:36 disagree with people. I get along with 56:38 people I disagree with. I have a lot of 56:39 friends I don't agree with. That's okay 56:40 with me. But what you can't do is wreck 56:44 everything. You're not allowed to do 56:45 that. You didn't build it in the first 56:47 place. That's how I feel about it. I'm 56:49 not just Anyway, so they pushed too far. 56:51 And the war with Iran is too far. The 56:53 war with Russia is too far. And I'm just 56:56 in this place where it's like, what are 56:57 you going to do about it? Kill me? Okay, 56:59 I'm not afraid of that. I'm a Christian. 57:01 So, I'm just going to keep talking. By 57:03 the way, it's had no effect at all. I 57:05 have no power. I have had no effect on 57:08 recent history other than to whine about 57:10 it. So, I am not a powerful person. I'm 57:12 an observer saying what I think is true. 57:15 But I am as sincere as I can possibly be 57:17 because I have the privilege of 57:18 sincerity. I don't have any debt. And 57:20 that's the last thing I'll say is the 57:21 United States is a debtor nation. It 57:23 owes more than it owns. It is in some 57:26 deep sense bankrupt. And that is true of 57:28 its population. People are in debt. 57:30 They're encouraged to be in debt. I'm 57:31 not in debt. I don't live in a huge way. 57:33 I don't have an airplane. I I flew coach 57:35 last week. That's all fine with me. But 57:37 what I don't have is debt. And when you 57:40 don't owe banks or anybody else any 57:42 money, you're weirdly a lot freer than 57:45 you were before. And that's how I feel. 57:47 I'm just going to tell the truth. And if 57:48 you don't like it, I'm sorry, but this 57:50 is what I think is true. 57:51 >> Yeah, I disagree with you. I think you 57:53 are having an impact. And I think 57:54 telling that truth and sharing it with 57:56 people all over the world. People are 57:57 watching this interview now all over the 57:59 world and they're listening to those 58:00 words. And I think it is important for 58:02 people to speak out because for too long 58:05 people have not spoken out. I mean e 58:07 even the fact that you're here we are on 58:09 RT. This is a Russian television 58:11 station. I can't tell you talk how many 58:14 people talk to me all the time and say 58:16 Rick I'm watching your stuff on the 58:17 internet. You're doing a great job. It's 58:19 fantastic. And then I'll say would you 58:21 come on the show? Well, you know I I 58:24 don't want to do that. If I was working 58:25 at the BBC or Le Man, they would they 58:27 would be, you know, falling over 58:29 themselves to be interviewed by me. 58:31 What's the difference? What's the 58:33 difference? I'm a I'm an American 58:34 journalist who has an opportunity to 58:36 speak to work in a in a television 58:38 network that I respect who lets me. 58:40 Here's my notes for this interview. 58:41 Nothing was sent here by the Kremlin 58:43 that I had to ask you. Okay? I mean, 58:45 this is just a conversation between two 58:47 friends. But yet, I'm being told by some 58:49 people, those same people you call the 58:51 neocons, etc., you can't do that. You 58:53 can't work for them. Why not? Right. So, 58:56 I'm I'm saying thank you to you because 58:58 it's courageous. 58:59 >> Well, thank you. And I I will all first 59:02 world friends obviously, but I mean I do 59:04 Israeli television. I would do North 59:06 Korean television. I will speak to 59:07 anybody who will hear me and I will say 59:10 what I really think is true. And by the 59:12 way, I've often been wrong. I'm sure I'm 59:14 wrong about things now, but I just want 59:16 to say as often as I can what I believe 59:20 is true because that's the only power I 59:22 have. 59:22 >> God bless you, man. I'm so you've been 59:24 so kind and so gracious with your time 59:27 to give us this interview and we you 59:29 know it's and and we'll talk again and 59:30 I'm sure I'll we'll be sharing some 59:32 notes as we go along the line here and 59:34 I'll be back in the States very soon and 59:35 maybe we'll be able to get together and 59:37 have a cup of coffee. 59:38 >> Thanks. Thanks, Tucker. 59:39 >> That'd be the best. Thank you, Rick. 59:41 >> Of course. 59:41 >> See you, man. 59:42 >> There you have it. Uh Tucker Carlson, 59:44 none other than uh a good hour 59:46 conversation with someone who I'm sure 59:49 as you can tell and I I hope it wasn't a 59:51 bias on my part. Maybe it is. And I'll 59:53 just admit to it. [music] I I like him. 59:56 I I I think there's a lot of people in 59:59 this world who say [music] things 1:00:01 because they think it sounds good. 1:00:03 There's a lot of people in this world 1:00:04 who slogan. Um he doesn't. Every [music] 1:00:09 word that you just heard him express is 1:00:12 something I know he believes because 1:00:14 we've had conversations about these 1:00:15 [music] things in the past and and I 1:00:17 know it's heartfelt and and I do believe 1:00:20 that there are [music] changes that need 1:00:22 to be made. I'm an American. I love my 1:00:25 country [music] and I and I would love 1:00:27 to see our country serve its people 1:00:30 better. And I think there's a small 1:00:32 group of [music] 1:00:34 people who are keeping that from 1:00:35 happening and and they're the ones 1:00:37 getting in the way. and and it's not 1:00:39 [music] it's not the people, it's a 1:00:42 certain group of people. Anyway, I could 1:00:44 go on forever about this. Um, [music] as 1:00:47 you know, this will be shared on social 1:00:49 media. You will be able to see this on 1:00:51 [music] Spotify and on YouTube where 1:00:53 people will share it, I am sure. And 1:00:55 many will [music] criticize some of the 1:00:57 things that we said, I am sure. And 1:00:59 you'll be able to see much of this as 1:01:01 well on X where it'll be shared 1:01:03 immediately and I'm sure millions of 1:01:04 people will see it there. and on 1:01:06 Bitshoot, which I love because Bitshoot 1:01:08 is the one social media platform that 1:01:10 literally does not cancel people and 1:01:12 does not make content disappear. [music] 1:01:14 Mine has many times. Most of all, thank 1:01:18 you so much for letting us [music] into 1:01:20 your homes. We really appreciate. I'm 1:01:21 Rick Sanchez and I'll see you next time. 1:01:24 >> One zero liftoff. 1:01:27 Liftoff. 1:01:29 >> Every day, history unfolds. 1:01:31 [music] 1:01:32 chance to change the lives of millions 1:01:35 of people for the better. That's when I 1:01:37 came into politics. 1:01:38 >> A decision is made. A question is asked. 1:01:48 >> A protest begins. 1:01:52 A missile is launched. 1:01:54 [applause and music] 1:01:55 A treaty is signed. 1:01:57 >> Change the political structures in this 1:01:59 country for a long time to come. It is 1:02:02 deeply humbling. 1:02:03 >> A vote is counted. [music] 1:02:06 >> The world changes. 1:02:07 >> We will have to raise our voices. 1:02:09 >> We oppose violence. Hate. 1:02:10 >> It is not a solution. 1:02:12 >> We demand accountability from the 1:02:13 government. 1:02:14 >> Are we ready? 1:02:15 >> But before the headlines, 1:02:18 before the debates, before the opinions, 1:02:22 >> there is the moment itself, the words 1:02:24 that were spoken. 1:02:25 >> By 2008, we knew that Epstein was a 1:02:28 convicted sexual abuser. How was that 1:02:31 not a dealbreaker for the president? 1:02:33 >> If you, Congresswoman, um, asked Bill 1:02:35 Clinton that, 1:02:36 >> the people who lived it, the images that 1:02:39 tell the story, because the closer you 1:02:41 are to the event, the closer you are to 1:02:43 the truth. 1:02:46 >> At AP, we believe news should begin 1:02:49 where history happens, not where the 1:02:51 arguments begin. 1:02:52 >> Or do you want to go there? 1:02:54 >> That's why we bring you the moments that 1:02:56 matter. Accurate, powerful, timely. So 1:03:00 you can see more, understand more, and 1:03:03 decide for yourself. 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