Log of #symfony-dev meeting 20110224 (all times GMT-5)

transcript.txt

Feb 24 11:04:47 <weaverryan>	meeting time?
Feb 24 11:05:10 <bschussek>	yup, who's moderating?
Feb 24 11:05:47 <weaverryan>	stof, are you moderating?
Feb 24 11:06:29 <Stof>	I would prefer someone else
Feb 24 11:06:45 <Stof>	because I'm only half here
Feb 24 11:07:03 <bschussek>	weaverryan maybe?
Feb 24 11:07:08 <johannesss>	did everyone vote? http://doodle.com/gide65qvxvf975yp
Feb 24 11:07:16 <johannesss>	looks empty
Feb 24 11:07:39 <johannesss>	but we could probably cover all topics anyway
Feb 24 11:08:06 <bschussek>	fabpot: are you there?
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Feb 24 11:11:55 <weaverryan>	i'm only half here as well - but I say we just hop in - anything we can get accomplished is a plus
Feb 24 11:12:04 *	avalanche123 cricket, cricket
Feb 24 11:12:13 <weaverryan>	bschussek or johannesss - can either of you start running us through the topics - assuming fabpot is here?
Feb 24 11:13:18 <bschussek>	he is not
Feb 24 11:13:50 <bschussek>	I think neither of the topics make sense if discussed without him
Feb 24 11:14:46 <jmikola|w>	is the plan still for RC1 during Symfony Live?
Feb 24 11:15:27 <jmikola|w>	most of the lieutenants seem to be here; is there anything in your respective areas that is still significantly outstanding? (excluding security)
Feb 24 11:16:19 <bschussek>	jmikola|w: the form component
Feb 24 11:17:00 <bschussek>	jonwage, lsmith and avalanche123 pushed me to refactor it so that it uses DI properly
Feb 24 11:17:09 <jmikola|w>	bschussek: yes, within that i mean - i saw a recent post about some stub intl stuff already working
Feb 24 11:17:18 <weaverryan>	ha, you sound like you were bullied :)
Feb 24 11:17:19 <jmikola|w>	yup, bulat mentioned that
Feb 24 11:17:23 <bschussek>	I did that experimentally, and found pretty good results
Feb 24 11:17:30 <jonwage>	all hail bschussek
Feb 24 11:17:33 <jmikola|w>	i think one major change was no more option arrays
Feb 24 11:17:35 <bschussek>	the problem is, that it's impossible to make this stable until next week
Feb 24 11:17:36 *	jmikola|w hails bschussek 
Feb 24 11:17:44 *	avalanche123 hails bschussek 
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Feb 24 11:17:59 <bschussek>	I'm nearly done with the refactoring, and most tests are green again. But in the details, there's stuff to be fixed
Feb 24 11:18:13 <Stof>	and it has to be done before RC1 as it is a BC break
Feb 24 11:18:18 <bschussek>	exactly
Feb 24 11:18:39 <jmikola|w>	do you anticipate anything significant for validation component? or is that pretty polished
Feb 24 11:19:04 <bschussek>	jmikola|w: it is pretty polished, although one should probably fix the Date constraint as mentioned on the ML
Feb 24 11:19:09 <jmikola|w>	someone on ML was asking about and/or wrapping constraints, but i recall asking you about that last summer and you said it wasn't in the spirit of the JSR - that's what custom methods would be for
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Feb 24 11:19:32 <jmikola|w>	like an assert-true on an isTypeValid() method
Feb 24 11:19:39 <bschussek>	jmikola|w: yes
Feb 24 11:19:44 <Stof>	jmikola|w: AND exist. It is what is done currently
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Feb 24 11:19:54 <jmikola|w>	Stof: yes, implicitly :)
Feb 24 11:20:06 <bschussek>	I don't want to go the road of implementing conditional logic. I don't know where this will lead
Feb 24 11:20:29 <bschussek>	there are also two extensions missing, but they are nice to have
Feb 24 11:20:33 <bschussek>	constraint caching
Feb 24 11:20:55 <bschussek>	and Doctrine aware object traversal to keep Doctrine from lazy loading objects
Feb 24 11:21:18 <bschussek>	both are performance improvements and don't break BC
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Feb 24 11:22:10 <bschussek>	and then there's the thing about error messages
Feb 24 11:22:18 <bschussek>	what do you think about binding Translator to Validator?
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Feb 24 11:22:49 <jmikola|w>	you mean integrating the components or having a bind() method :)
Feb 24 11:23:15 <bschussek>	integrating
Feb 24 11:23:25 <bschussek>	I really want to throw out clear text error messages
Feb 24 11:23:46 <bschussek>	hard-coded ones, that is
Feb 24 11:24:11 <jmikola|w>	ah, isn't that accomplished with messages.en.xml already?
Feb 24 11:24:24 <jmikola|w>	en being the identity translator if no translation service is available?
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Feb 24 11:25:26 <bschussek>	jmikola|w: you mean it can be used to change english texts?
Feb 24 11:26:22 <jmikola|w>	i'm guessing you want the messages in constraints to default to some identifier, like symfony.constraint.max or something
Feb 24 11:26:41 <bschussek>	yes
Feb 24 11:26:43 <jmikola|w>	which would have a default english translation in the message file that ships with symfony
Feb 24 11:27:13 <jmikola|w>	isn't that how it used to be?  i recall there being a messages.en.xml file in core last summer
Feb 24 11:27:18 <bschussek>	yes it was
Feb 24 11:27:21 <bschussek>	Fabien change dit
Feb 24 11:27:42 <bschussek>	the problem is that if we switch to recommending message keys, we should do that in the core
Feb 24 11:27:45 <bschussek>	too
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Feb 24 11:32:05 <weaverryan>	quick side comment - I think the DI extension tests need some love across the board - there are a lot of tests on the DI extension itself that are testing merging and normalization
Feb 24 11:32:35 <jmikola|w>	weaverryan: you mean bundle extensions need tests?
Feb 24 11:32:55 <weaverryan>	I mean that many of the tests for the DI extensions should be moved to tests on the Configuration class
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Feb 24 11:33:20 <weaverryan>	then the tests for the extension class don't need to worry about different formats being plugged into it, normalization, etc
Feb 24 11:34:00 <fabpot>	I'm here now
Feb 24 11:34:10 <jmikola|w>	weaverryan: i realize this makes them more functional than unit, but weren't we doing that so that example configs exist in the test fixtures?
Feb 24 11:34:19 <weaverryan>	it came up a bit yesterday talking with pgodel_work - it's difficult to try to modify the Configuration class, and I think it would be easier if the unit tests on the Configuration classes were more cut-and-dry
Feb 24 11:34:53 <weaverryan>	jmikola|w: I think we can use those same example configs and use them in the Configuration test
Feb 24 11:35:06 <pgodel_work>	I agree
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Feb 24 11:35:46 <weaverryan>	so, it's not something that'll break BC and doesn't need to be done now - but it's a cleanup that we should keep in mind
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Feb 24 11:36:17 <weaverryan>	I think the DI extension tests should just take in an array of configs, not load from fixture files
Feb 24 11:36:37 <weaverryan>	fabpot: we're a bit disorganized today and several people are busy
Feb 24 11:37:07 <fabpot>	weaverryan: ok, np. We don't have that many hot topics anyway
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Feb 24 11:39:23 <pgodel_work>	so, I was adding the PdoProfilerStorage
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Feb 24 11:39:45 <pgodel_work>	and stumble upon the Configuration class and the XSD required changes.
Feb 24 11:40:14 <pgodel_work>	I talked to Ryan to see how we can provide docs regarding these two to aid those not familiar with them.
Feb 24 11:40:17 <lsmith>	fabpot: i think the entire eager response and security for subrequests topic is better done is person .. though that of course doesnt help our timeline .. but the current discussion is not moving in any direction and is just taking energy
Feb 24 11:41:04 <pgodel_work>	any ideas would be welcome
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Feb 24 11:41:40 <lsmith>	bbl
Feb 24 11:41:49 <Stof>	pgodel_work: I can help you for the changes but I don't have idea for the way to provide doc atm
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Feb 24 11:42:28 <pgodel_work>	Stof: some help would be appreciated, I kind of backed off with the pull request since I really was not sure what I was doing with those. :)
Feb 24 11:43:55 <pgodel_work>	I was thinking that giving some best practice examples on how to use the Configuration class would be good with some different common scenarios
Feb 24 11:44:01 <Stof>	for the missing things for RC1: the fallback mecanism of the Translator component seems broken. There is a ticket about that
Feb 24 11:44:41 <Stof>	pgodel_work: there is no common scenarios. It represent the available configuration options so it depends of what your configuration looks like
Feb 24 11:45:05 <pgodel_work>	I think we can identify some common cases
Feb 24 11:46:05 <pgodel_work>	for example for the PdoProfilerStorage I was looking at the PdoSessionStorage
Feb 24 11:49:46 <Stof>	pgodel_work: give me the link to your branch and I can provide you a PR fixing the Configuration
Feb 24 11:50:17 <pgodel_work>	https://github.com/pgodel/symfony/tree/pdoprofilerstorage
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Feb 24 11:54:05 <weaverryan>	yes, I also think we can provide a doc with some common cases - a few scalar nodes, an array node, an array node with a prototype, etc
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Feb 24 11:56:04 <fabpot>	weaverryan: that's something we can do in a recipe for the cookbook
Feb 24 11:56:15 <fabpot>	as this is not something many people will do/need
Feb 24 11:57:20 <Seldaek>	bschussek: maybe you should highlight what is left to be done if you have a roadmap, send a mail to the ml and ask for help? I mean you've been working on that alone mostly so far, I don't think that's good for you or the project, and if we're coming to a deadline and your refactoring isn't done we have problems
Feb 24 11:57:44 <pgodel_work>	and explaining the replacement with the closures would help too :)
Feb 24 11:58:12 <weaverryan>	fabpot: agreed - we'll need a place where we can keep track of cookbook articles that we'd like to see written
Feb 24 11:58:13 <weaverryan>	they're all currently written down for me in about 5 places :)
Feb 24 11:58:33 <jmikola|w>	all the recipes are stored in symfony-docs, too, right?
Feb 24 11:59:04 <fabpot>	jmikola: right
Feb 24 11:59:20 <fabpot>	we have the following main entries: book, cookbook, reference, contributing
Feb 24 11:59:28 <fabpot>	and quick_tour
Feb 24 11:59:43 <Stof>	pgodel_work: done. You can merge it easily as it is a fast-forward
Feb 24 11:59:46 <weaverryan>	and ideally we'll solicit cookbook documents from a large variety of people
Feb 24 11:59:51 <weaverryan>	always vetted for quality of course
Feb 24 12:00:59 <pgodel_work>	Stof: that was quick :)
Feb 24 12:01:33 <pgodel_work>	that's exactly what I mean about about a best pracitce on how to define and use these
Feb 24 12:01:55 <Stof>	"best practice" is not the good word
Feb 24 12:02:05 <pgodel_work>	Stof: could you also include a mod to the XSD ?
Feb 24 12:02:06 <Stof>	this change was easy. Writing the entire DoctrineBundle class is more difficult
Feb 24 12:02:26 <pgodel_work>	it's easy when you know what you are doing ;-)
Feb 24 12:02:27 <Stof>	I suck at writing XSD. You should ask someone else
Feb 24 12:02:36 <pgodel_work>	hehe, that makes two of us
Feb 24 12:03:03 <pgodel_work>	anyone has any good docs links on XSD ?
Feb 24 12:04:40 <pgodel_work>	Stof: thanks for the help
Feb 24 12:04:51 <pgodel_work>	will you be in paris ?
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Feb 24 12:04:58 <jmikola|w>	pgodel_work: i've gotten by with looking at existing XSD's and wikipedia
Feb 24 12:05:26 <pgodel_work>	jmikola|w: any tips on validating them? Netbeans did not help me
Feb 24 12:05:44 <jmikola|w>	eclipse actually yells at me inline if i do something wrong
Feb 24 12:06:01 <Stof>	sadly not. I would love being there for the hacking days but this is just the weekend where I come back to France so I cannot be there