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December 6, 2024 02:15
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1 | |
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,000 | |
2 | |
00:00:04,378 --> 00:00:07,378 | |
我一開始看到這個題目的時候 | |
3 | |
00:00:07,378 --> 00:00:11,378 | |
數位韌性的重要性 及立法歷程 | |
4 | |
00:00:11,378 --> 00:00:14,378 | |
我腦袋裡面的第一個問題是 | |
5 | |
00:00:14,378 --> 00:00:17,378 | |
什麼是數位韌性 | |
6 | |
00:00:17,378 --> 00:00:21,378 | |
所以我就要找官方權威的解釋 | |
7 | |
00:00:21,378 --> 00:00:24,378 | |
就到我的數發部的網站 | |
8 | |
00:00:24,378 --> 00:00:27,378 | |
看他們怎麼定義數位韌性 | |
9 | |
00:00:27,378 --> 00:00:29,378 | |
他們的定義是透過數位工具 | |
10 | |
00:00:29,378 --> 00:00:32,378 | |
讓臺灣在遇到各種不利的狀況的時候 | |
11 | |
00:00:32,378 --> 00:00:34,368 | |
不但能撐得住 | |
12 | |
00:00:34,368 --> 00:00:38,368 | |
還能從打擊中迅速恢復並從中學習 | |
13 | |
00:00:38,368 --> 00:00:41,368 | |
還可以強化自身的體質 | |
14 | |
00:00:41,368 --> 00:00:45,368 | |
我看完了這個定義以後 我覺得這比較像是一個目標 | |
15 | |
00:00:45,368 --> 00:00:47,368 | |
這不是一個definition | |
16 | |
00:00:47,368 --> 00:00:53,368 | |
因為我看完了以後是非常抽象的一個狀態 | |
17 | |
00:00:53,368 --> 00:00:58,368 | |
它指的到底是什麼 其實看沒有那麼清楚 | |
18 | |
00:00:58,368 --> 00:01:01,368 | |
那不過我後來查了一下 | |
19 | |
00:01:01,368 --> 00:01:04,240 | |
因為我後來查了一下外文的文獻 | |
20 | |
00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,240 | |
就是Digital Resilience | |
21 | |
00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:12,240 | |
你如果用英文硬翻成華文的話 | |
22 | |
00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,240 | |
大概差不多啦 長成這個樣子 | |
23 | |
00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,240 | |
當然從翻譯的性達雅來講 | |
24 | |
00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,240 | |
還有很多可以改進的空間 | |
25 | |
00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:25,240 | |
但是你要掌握這個概念本身 | |
26 | |
00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,240 | |
我必須要老實講 沒有那麼簡單 | |
27 | |
00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,240 | |
它可能範圍蠻大的 | |
28 | |
00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,696 | |
因為我們在談韌性的時候 | |
29 | |
00:01:33,696 --> 00:01:36,696 | |
有各式各樣的韌性 當你談到數位韌性的時候 | |
30 | |
00:01:36,696 --> 00:01:39,696 | |
你似乎是用一個抽象的概念 | |
31 | |
00:01:39,696 --> 00:01:42,696 | |
似乎涵蓋非常大範圍 | |
32 | |
00:01:42,696 --> 00:01:45,696 | |
的事情 不管是 | |
33 | |
00:01:45,696 --> 00:01:48,696 | |
天災 不管是事變 | |
34 | |
00:01:48,696 --> 00:01:51,696 | |
不管是斷電 不管是疫情 | |
35 | |
00:01:51,696 --> 00:01:54,696 | |
各式各樣發生在 | |
36 | |
00:01:54,696 --> 00:01:56,696 | |
外部事件的 | |
37 | |
00:01:56,696 --> 00:01:58,696 | |
的disruption | |
38 | |
00:01:58,696 --> 00:02:01,696 | |
任何的事件都有可能 | |
39 | |
00:02:01,696 --> 00:02:03,246 | |
導致我們現在 | |
40 | |
00:02:03,246 --> 00:02:05,686 | |
不管是對個人、對企業、對政府 | |
41 | |
00:02:05,686 --> 00:02:09,246 | |
都會產生一定阻礙的效果 | |
42 | |
00:02:09,246 --> 00:02:12,646 | |
那因為在數發部的網站上面 | |
43 | |
00:02:12,646 --> 00:02:14,446 | |
看到一個 | |
44 | |
00:02:14,446 --> 00:02:17,446 | |
雖然對我來講 我是一個讀書人 | |
45 | |
00:02:17,446 --> 00:02:19,446 | |
但是我看完了以後 | |
46 | |
00:02:19,446 --> 00:02:21,646 | |
還是不是很理解的定義 | |
47 | |
00:02:21,646 --> 00:02:22,946 | |
所以呢 | |
48 | |
00:02:22,946 --> 00:02:25,446 | |
我接下來就做了第二個事情 | |
49 | |
00:02:25,446 --> 00:02:27,446 | |
我就請我的好朋友 | |
50 | |
00:02:27,446 --> 00:02:29,346 | |
叫做翟本喬 | |
51 | |
00:02:29,346 --> 00:02:31,346 | |
然後我請翟本喬 | |
52 | |
00:02:31,346 --> 00:02:33,405 | |
請他用 AI | |
53 | |
00:02:33,405 --> 00:02:37,405 | |
幫我生成了三張PPT | |
54 | |
00:02:37,405 --> 00:02:41,405 | |
來解釋什麼是數位韌性 | |
55 | |
00:02:41,405 --> 00:02:44,405 | |
所以接下來這三張PPT我必須要老實講 | |
56 | |
00:02:44,405 --> 00:02:46,405 | |
不是我做的 | |
57 | |
00:02:46,405 --> 00:02:48,405 | |
也不是翟本喬做的 | |
58 | |
00:02:48,405 --> 00:02:50,405 | |
是AI做的 | |
59 | |
00:02:50,405 --> 00:02:52,405 | |
那我們姑且看看 | |
60 | |
00:02:52,405 --> 00:02:55,405 | |
AI告訴我們什麼是數位韌性 | |
61 | |
00:02:55,405 --> 00:02:59,405 | |
第一個對國家安全的重要性 | |
62 | |
00:02:59,405 --> 00:03:01,405 | |
目前資安就是國安 | |
63 | |
00:03:02,909 --> 00:03:07,269 | |
的時代 所以有非常多的什麼 有非常多的國際網路 | |
64 | |
00:03:07,769 --> 00:03:10,589 | |
國際網路的攻擊事件 | |
65 | |
00:03:10,849 --> 00:03:13,909 | |
那會影響對我們的安全 | |
66 | |
00:03:14,169 --> 00:03:16,469 | |
影響非常的深遠 | |
67 | |
00:03:16,729 --> 00:03:19,809 | |
我看到這個了以後 我開始對數位韌性 | |
68 | |
00:03:20,069 --> 00:03:25,689 | |
有一點模糊的概念 知道他大概在講什麼事情 | |
69 | |
00:03:25,949 --> 00:03:28,769 | |
那第二個部分呢 是對經濟的影響 | |
70 | |
00:03:28,769 --> 00:03:31,409 | |
對企業跟經濟安全 | |
71 | |
00:03:31,549 --> 00:03:33,549 | |
會造成很大的衝擊 | |
72 | |
00:03:33,549 --> 00:03:35,549 | |
可能會導致企業的倒閉 | |
73 | |
00:03:35,549 --> 00:03:37,549 | |
可能會導致服務的中斷 | |
74 | |
00:03:37,549 --> 00:03:43,549 | |
那可能會反映在供應鏈上面風險控管的不足 | |
75 | |
00:03:43,549 --> 00:03:47,549 | |
那第三個部分對一般民眾的影響 那大概就多了 | |
76 | |
00:03:47,549 --> 00:03:49,549 | |
所謂對一般民眾的影響 | |
77 | |
00:03:49,549 --> 00:03:52,549 | |
大概可能在疫情的時候 | |
78 | |
00:03:52,549 --> 00:03:55,549 | |
大家感受最為深刻 | |
79 | |
00:03:55,549 --> 00:03:59,549 | |
人跟人之間的接觸必須要降低 | |
80 | |
00:03:59,549 --> 00:04:01,005 | |
實體的活動 | |
81 | |
00:04:01,005 --> 00:04:05,005 | |
要降低 那我們所存在的工具 | |
82 | |
00:04:05,005 --> 00:04:09,005 | |
或者是國家企業所提供的服務 | |
83 | |
00:04:09,005 --> 00:04:13,005 | |
有沒有辦法讓個人的生活在一個 | |
84 | |
00:04:13,005 --> 00:04:17,005 | |
所謂大疫情的時代當中 | |
85 | |
00:04:17,005 --> 00:04:22,005 | |
滿足每一個人生活上面基本的需求 | |
86 | |
00:04:22,005 --> 00:04:25,005 | |
所以我看完了這三個事情以後 | |
87 | |
00:04:25,005 --> 00:04:28,005 | |
我馬上想到對我自己來講 | |
88 | |
00:04:28,005 --> 00:04:30,441 | |
產生數位韌性 | |
89 | |
00:04:30,441 --> 00:04:32,941 | |
最切身的一個經驗 | |
90 | |
00:04:32,941 --> 00:04:37,741 | |
就是我剛加入臺灣民眾黨的時候 | |
91 | |
00:04:37,741 --> 00:04:41,741 | |
因為沒有錢 所以我要小額募款 | |
92 | |
00:04:41,741 --> 00:04:44,141 | |
所以我發起了一個500計畫 | |
93 | |
00:04:44,141 --> 00:04:46,941 | |
就是我有一天晚上利用直播的時候 | |
94 | |
00:04:46,941 --> 00:04:49,441 | |
號召支持的朋友們 | |
95 | |
00:04:49,441 --> 00:04:54,141 | |
一個人捐 我不要多 我只要你們捐500塊就好 | |
96 | |
00:04:54,141 --> 00:04:57,141 | |
讓我接下來可以辦各式各樣的活動 | |
97 | |
00:04:57,141 --> 00:04:59,441 | |
結果沒有想到那天晚上 | |
98 | |
00:04:59,545 --> 00:05:01,485 | |
一發起那個活動 | |
99 | |
00:05:01,885 --> 00:05:04,645 | |
我們的網站就癱瘓了 | |
100 | |
00:05:05,745 --> 00:05:09,085 | |
我是認真的講 整個網站徹底的 | |
101 | |
00:05:09,645 --> 00:05:10,645 | |
癱瘓掉了 | |
102 | |
00:05:10,945 --> 00:05:13,745 | |
那後來我們就認真的檢討 | |
103 | |
00:05:13,745 --> 00:05:16,545 | |
這到底是發生什麼樣的事情 | |
104 | |
00:05:16,545 --> 00:05:19,945 | |
是我們自己網站的capacity有問題 | |
105 | |
00:05:19,945 --> 00:05:21,945 | |
還是在同一個時間 | |
106 | |
00:05:21,945 --> 00:05:25,945 | |
我們遭受到政治的競爭者 | |
107 | |
00:05:25,945 --> 00:05:28,345 | |
或者是境外敵對勢力 | |
108 | |
00:05:28,361 --> 00:05:35,881 | |
因為不希望這個政黨有任何發展的可能性 | |
109 | |
00:05:35,881 --> 00:05:39,321 | |
然後癱瘓了我們整個捐款的系統 | |
110 | |
00:05:39,321 --> 00:05:43,921 | |
導致我沒有辦法透過這種小融募款的方式來從事 | |
111 | |
00:05:43,921 --> 00:05:47,441 | |
我想要從事接下來的政治活動 | |
112 | |
00:05:47,441 --> 00:05:50,121 | |
所以某個程度上面來講 | |
113 | |
00:05:50,881 --> 00:05:55,441 | |
我們自己的數位韌性非常非常的低 | |
114 | |
00:05:55,461 --> 00:05:56,741 | |
115 | |
00:05:56,741 --> 00:05:56,889 | |
必須要 | |
116 | |
00:05:56,889 --> 00:06:01,049 | |
進一步的強化 我才有可能啊 避免未來發生啊 | |
117 | |
00:06:01,049 --> 00:06:02,409 | |
這樣的事情 | |
118 | |
00:06:02,409 --> 00:06:05,929 | |
那瞭解完了 大致啊 這概念以後 | |
119 | |
00:06:05,929 --> 00:06:10,329 | |
非常抱歉了 我一開始就強調我不是一個Qualified Speaker | |
120 | |
00:06:10,329 --> 00:06:12,649 | |
因為大家會發現 我講到現在 | |
121 | |
00:06:12,649 --> 00:06:16,569 | |
我還是沒有跟大家講 什麼叫數位韌性 | |
122 | |
00:06:16,569 --> 00:06:18,969 | |
但是我們可以用一些 | |
123 | |
00:06:18,969 --> 00:06:23,529 | |
歷史的歷史開始在腦海裡面去Picture | |
124 | |
00:06:23,529 --> 00:06:26,329 | |
大概我們所遇到 在講的 | |
125 | |
00:06:26,329 --> 00:06:26,374 | |
大概我們所遇到 在講的 | |
126 | |
00:06:26,374 --> 00:06:30,854 | |
狀況是什麼 那當特定的問題了以後 | |
127 | |
00:06:30,854 --> 00:06:33,494 | |
下一個階段就是去回想 | |
128 | |
00:06:33,494 --> 00:06:37,014 | |
我們的立法院的立法進程 | |
129 | |
00:06:37,014 --> 00:06:39,014 | |
到底是什麼 | |
130 | |
00:06:39,014 --> 00:06:41,014 | |
那相對於前一位講者 | |
131 | |
00:06:41,014 --> 00:06:43,334 | |
看到歐盟的立法會發現說 | |
132 | |
00:06:43,334 --> 00:06:45,894 | |
臺灣在這方面立法的速度 | |
133 | |
00:06:45,894 --> 00:06:49,094 | |
非常非常的慢 非常非常的慢 | |
134 | |
00:06:49,094 --> 00:06:53,014 | |
但是大家停下來想一件事情 | |
135 | |
00:06:53,014 --> 00:06:56,294 | |
科技的本質是快速的發展 | |
136 | |
00:06:56,742 --> 00:07:02,742 | |
法律的本質是永遠緩慢的在背後追趕 | |
137 | |
00:07:02,742 --> 00:07:06,742 | |
因此你要想的一件事情是說 | |
138 | |
00:07:06,742 --> 00:07:09,742 | |
立法的角度 | |
139 | |
00:07:09,742 --> 00:07:11,742 | |
是不是一件不好的事情 | |
140 | |
00:07:11,742 --> 00:07:15,742 | |
其實我們應該停下來想一想 | |
141 | |
00:07:15,742 --> 00:07:18,742 | |
因為如果是一個錯誤或者是粗糙的立法 | |
142 | |
00:07:18,742 --> 00:07:21,742 | |
反而去阻礙了科技的發展 | |
143 | |
00:07:21,742 --> 00:07:25,638 | |
對這個社會對我們的每一個人民 | |
144 | |
00:07:25,638 --> 00:07:29,198 | |
到底是一件好事 還是一個不好的事情 | |
145 | |
00:07:30,318 --> 00:07:33,478 | |
這件事情的思考其實在有關於AI | |
146 | |
00:07:33,478 --> 00:07:37,638 | |
現在立法 歐盟 美國 乃至於臺灣在思考的時候 | |
147 | |
00:07:37,638 --> 00:07:40,198 | |
其實相關的討論都可以看到 | |
148 | |
00:07:40,198 --> 00:07:42,998 | |
我們臺灣立法的速度非常的慢 | |
149 | |
00:07:42,998 --> 00:07:47,238 | |
但是我應該兩次都有機會可以參與到 | |
150 | |
00:07:47,798 --> 00:07:51,038 | |
我們先看這個 這個是2022年8月的時候 | |
151 | |
00:07:51,038 --> 00:07:52,838 | |
裴洛西要來臺灣 | |
152 | |
00:07:53,158 --> 00:07:55,398 | |
這個是在便利超商上面 | |
153 | |
00:07:55,638 --> 00:07:58,638 | |
所顯示出來的畫面 | |
154 | |
00:07:58,638 --> 00:08:00,638 | |
當然你可以說 | |
155 | |
00:08:00,638 --> 00:08:03,638 | |
這個是一個政治上面 | |
156 | |
00:08:03,638 --> 00:08:06,638 | |
propaganda 政治上面的宣傳 | |
157 | |
00:08:06,638 --> 00:08:09,638 | |
不管他可能有一定的政治立場 | |
158 | |
00:08:09,638 --> 00:08:11,638 | |
透過那個政治立場去發動攻擊 | |
159 | |
00:08:11,638 --> 00:08:14,638 | |
但是我們要認真講一講的事情是說 | |
160 | |
00:08:14,638 --> 00:08:16,638 | |
如果現在秀出來的 | |
161 | |
00:08:16,638 --> 00:08:20,638 | |
是會引發社會或者是公民 | |
162 | |
00:08:20,638 --> 00:08:22,638 | |
真正恐慌的事情 | |
163 | |
00:08:22,638 --> 00:08:24,546 | |
真正恐慌的事情 | |
164 | |
00:08:24,546 --> 00:08:29,726 | |
就在每一個便利超商的通路上面的電視 如果都出現 | |
165 | |
00:08:29,726 --> 00:08:32,786 | |
會引發公共恐慌的訊息的時候 | |
166 | |
00:08:32,786 --> 00:08:35,206 | |
這個時候該怎麼辦 | |
167 | |
00:08:35,206 --> 00:08:36,946 | |
這個時候該怎麼辦 | |
168 | |
00:08:36,946 --> 00:08:39,766 | |
這個就會直接牽涉到 | |
169 | |
00:08:39,766 --> 00:08:45,086 | |
我第一次在立法院的時候 我們通過一個資通安全管理法的立法 | |
170 | |
00:08:45,086 --> 00:08:48,846 | |
那個時候是希望透過組織行政院的資安處 | |
171 | |
00:08:48,846 --> 00:08:51,566 | |
其實只是一個次級的幕僚單位 | |
172 | |
00:08:51,566 --> 00:08:53,026 | |
人很優秀 | |
173 | |
00:08:53,138 --> 00:08:56,138 | |
但是層級不夠高 資源不夠多 | |
174 | |
00:08:56,138 --> 00:09:00,538 | |
那第二個 希望透過給他們比較好的待遇 | |
175 | |
00:09:00,538 --> 00:09:03,538 | |
也有給他們訓練 也有給他們考核 | |
176 | |
00:09:03,538 --> 00:09:05,538 | |
去招募比較好的人員 | |
177 | |
00:09:05,538 --> 00:09:09,138 | |
那希望他達到的是一個事前的預防 | |
178 | |
00:09:09,138 --> 00:09:10,538 | |
事中的回應 | |
179 | |
00:09:10,538 --> 00:09:13,938 | |
事後能夠很迅速的recover | |
180 | |
00:09:13,938 --> 00:09:20,738 | |
能夠很快的能夠回復他應該有的資訊安全的狀態 | |
181 | |
00:09:21,394 --> 00:09:24,394 | |
進行最後的事後的調查 | |
182 | |
00:09:24,394 --> 00:09:26,394 | |
甚至或究責 | |
183 | |
00:09:26,394 --> 00:09:27,394 | |
但問題是什麼 | |
184 | |
00:09:27,394 --> 00:09:29,394 | |
但問題是說 | |
185 | |
00:09:29,394 --> 00:09:31,394 | |
這個資通安全管理法 | |
186 | |
00:09:31,394 --> 00:09:32,394 | |
那個時候 | |
187 | |
00:09:32,394 --> 00:09:33,394 | |
在立法的時候 | |
188 | |
00:09:33,394 --> 00:09:35,394 | |
主要就是公務機關 | |
189 | |
00:09:35,394 --> 00:09:36,394 | |
除了公務機關 | |
190 | |
00:09:36,394 --> 00:09:38,394 | |
還有關鍵基礎設施的提供者 | |
191 | |
00:09:38,394 --> 00:09:40,394 | |
那關鍵基礎設施的提供者 | |
192 | |
00:09:40,394 --> 00:09:42,394 | |
我們的政府現在訂出來的 | |
193 | |
00:09:42,394 --> 00:09:43,394 | |
八個領域 | |
194 | |
00:09:43,394 --> 00:09:45,394 | |
從能源 從水 | |
195 | |
00:09:45,394 --> 00:09:48,394 | |
從交通 從通訊 | |
196 | |
00:09:48,394 --> 00:09:50,394 | |
從醫療 從金融 | |
197 | |
00:09:50,394 --> 00:09:51,314 | |
198 | |
00:09:51,314 --> 00:09:54,314 | |
公務機關以及科技園區 | |
199 | |
00:09:54,314 --> 00:09:57,594 | |
畫了八個關鍵基礎設施 | |
200 | |
00:09:57,594 --> 00:10:00,594 | |
CI的提供者 | |
201 | |
00:10:00,594 --> 00:10:02,594 | |
也把它放在那裡面 | |
202 | |
00:10:02,594 --> 00:10:04,594 | |
那當然最後的特定的 | |
203 | |
00:10:04,854 --> 00:10:07,254 | |
非公務機關 就是公營事業 | |
204 | |
00:10:07,254 --> 00:10:09,994 | |
跟政府捐出的財產法的某個程度上 | |
205 | |
00:10:09,994 --> 00:10:12,814 | |
它是廣義的公部門 | |
206 | |
00:10:12,814 --> 00:10:15,214 | |
那畫出這樣子的一個範圍 | |
207 | |
00:10:15,214 --> 00:10:17,694 | |
它有個好處 因為這是第一步 | |
208 | |
00:10:17,694 --> 00:10:20,574 | |
私部門它承受的可能性 | |
209 | |
00:10:20,639 --> 00:10:22,639 | |
以及它承受的能量 | |
210 | |
00:10:22,639 --> 00:10:26,639 | |
是不是有辦法承受資通安全管理法裡面所要求 | |
211 | |
00:10:26,639 --> 00:10:30,639 | |
科與的各式各樣的義務 那個時候會是一個問題 | |
212 | |
00:10:30,639 --> 00:10:34,639 | |
但是我們回到前面裴洛西的那個問題 | |
213 | |
00:10:34,639 --> 00:10:37,639 | |
你就每一個便利商店 | |
214 | |
00:10:37,639 --> 00:10:42,639 | |
它基本上絕對不落在這個範圍 | |
215 | |
00:10:42,639 --> 00:10:45,639 | |
絕對不落在這個範圍之內 | |
216 | |
00:10:45,639 --> 00:10:48,639 | |
那所導致的是什麼 導致的是資通安全管理法 | |
217 | |
00:10:49,055 --> 00:10:52,775 | |
從開始生效施行到裴洛西的事件 | |
218 | |
00:10:52,775 --> 00:10:55,195 | |
發生了整整已經四年多了 | |
219 | |
00:10:56,135 --> 00:10:59,375 | |
整整已經四年多了 實行了四年多以後 | |
220 | |
00:10:59,375 --> 00:11:02,355 | |
我們冷靜的問我們自己一個問題 | |
221 | |
00:11:02,355 --> 00:11:08,575 | |
我們到今天2024年 知不知道2022年的8月發生了什麼事情 | |
222 | |
00:11:10,095 --> 00:11:11,735 | |
為什麼這件事情 | |
223 | |
00:11:12,255 --> 00:11:13,415 | |
會發生 | |
224 | |
00:11:13,935 --> 00:11:16,527 | |
正是因為這個樣子 就是說 | |
225 | |
00:11:16,527 --> 00:11:19,327 | |
下一個階段 怎麼強化公私協力 | |
226 | |
00:11:19,327 --> 00:11:24,127 | |
能夠建立更好的資通安全管理的法制 | |
227 | |
00:11:24,127 --> 00:11:26,127 | |
會變成是一個重要的課題 | |
228 | |
00:11:26,127 --> 00:11:29,527 | |
未必是直接課與私部門很強的義務 | |
229 | |
00:11:29,527 --> 00:11:33,727 | |
但是怎麼樣架構好的公私協力的一個狀態 | |
230 | |
00:11:33,727 --> 00:11:37,927 | |
這是下一個階段一定要面臨的挑戰 | |
231 | |
00:11:37,927 --> 00:11:41,727 | |
第二個部分 在目前的資通安全管理法裡面 | |
232 | |
00:11:41,727 --> 00:11:45,127 | |
我想就以我們國安局所做的報告 | |
233 | |
00:11:46,015 --> 00:11:50,815 | |
不管是中國大陸那邊的手機非法收集用戶的資訊 | |
234 | |
00:11:50,815 --> 00:11:58,415 | |
美國的FCC有禁止中國特定廠牌的通訊跟監控的設備等等 | |
235 | |
00:11:58,415 --> 00:12:01,415 | |
它所造成的危害 | |
236 | |
00:12:01,415 --> 00:12:02,615 | |
下一個問題 | |
237 | |
00:12:02,615 --> 00:12:06,215 | |
在我國我們有沒有管制這件事情 | |
238 | |
00:12:06,215 --> 00:12:08,015 | |
如何管制這件事情 | |
239 | |
00:12:09,415 --> 00:12:13,615 | |
這個是我最近大概這個會期所抓到的 | |
240 | |
00:12:13,615 --> 00:12:15,615 | |
在我們的軍事要塞裡面 | |
241 | |
00:12:15,791 --> 00:12:18,911 | |
竟然有中國的資通訊產品 | |
242 | |
00:12:19,431 --> 00:12:22,531 | |
那我先跟各位講結論 因為我的時間到了 | |
243 | |
00:12:22,531 --> 00:12:25,331 | |
因為我那天問所有的主管機關 | |
244 | |
00:12:25,331 --> 00:12:28,831 | |
我說資通安全管理法可不可以處理這件事情 | |
245 | |
00:12:28,831 --> 00:12:30,091 | |
答案是NO | |
246 | |
00:12:31,091 --> 00:12:32,251 | |
答案是NO | |
247 | |
00:12:32,671 --> 00:12:34,871 | |
完全契約處理 | |
248 | |
00:12:34,871 --> 00:12:37,531 | |
資通安全管理法是管不到 | |
249 | |
00:12:37,531 --> 00:12:38,891 | |
這件事情 | |
250 | |
00:12:38,891 --> 00:12:40,571 | |
然後那時候我問他們說 | |
251 | |
00:12:40,571 --> 00:12:42,511 | |
你們不會覺得很荒謬嗎 | |
252 | |
00:12:42,556 --> 00:12:45,556 | |
這件事情竟然只可以用私法的契約處理 | |
253 | |
00:12:45,556 --> 00:12:48,556 | |
竟然資通安全管理法處理不到 | |
254 | |
00:12:48,556 --> 00:12:53,556 | |
那我們當初訂資通安全管理法 到底在做些什麼事情 | |
255 | |
00:12:54,556 --> 00:12:58,556 | |
因此2024年修法的草案 | |
256 | |
00:12:58,556 --> 00:13:00,556 | |
把組織層級拉高 | |
257 | |
00:13:00,556 --> 00:13:02,556 | |
數位部是主管機關 | |
258 | |
00:13:03,556 --> 00:13:06,556 | |
然後資安署是執行機關 | |
259 | |
00:13:06,556 --> 00:13:10,556 | |
規範連對象 定義文字有修正 但沒有實質改變 | |
260 | |
00:13:10,556 --> 00:13:11,716 | |
基本上 | |
261 | |
00:13:11,724 --> 00:13:15,564 | |
還是公務部門跟關鍵基礎設施的提供者 | |
262 | |
00:13:15,564 --> 00:13:21,004 | |
國家資通安全會報現在有了 只是給他賦予法源的基礎 | |
263 | |
00:13:21,004 --> 00:13:25,324 | |
最重要的事情是強化危害國家資通訊產品的管制 | |
264 | |
00:13:25,324 --> 00:13:27,564 | |
這個事情給他法律的授權 | |
265 | |
00:13:27,564 --> 00:13:33,404 | |
因為我們之前完全是透過錯誤的立法方式 | |
266 | |
00:13:33,404 --> 00:13:38,444 | |
透過一個沒有法律授權的行政規則在管這件事 | |
267 | |
00:13:38,524 --> 00:13:41,084 | |
268 | |
00:13:41,084 --> 00:13:41,164 | |
所謂沒有法律授權的行政規則 | |
269 | |
00:13:41,164 --> 00:13:47,764 | |
事實上 各機關對危害國家資通安全產品使用限制使用原則 | |
270 | |
00:13:47,764 --> 00:13:52,564 | |
它上面講說母法授權是資通安全管理法第五條第一項 | |
271 | |
00:13:52,564 --> 00:13:55,264 | |
但有興趣的朋友去仔細的看 | |
272 | |
00:13:55,264 --> 00:13:58,764 | |
資通安全管理法第五條第一項的規定就會發現 | |
273 | |
00:13:58,764 --> 00:14:05,764 | |
它根本沒有辦法作為這個使用規則的授權的立法的母體 | |
274 | |
00:14:05,764 --> 00:14:09,764 | |
寫成那個樣子不可能是有法律授權 | |
275 | |
00:14:09,836 --> 00:14:12,336 | |
所以現在行政院版第十一條 | |
276 | |
00:14:12,336 --> 00:14:16,836 | |
就做了這樣子的一個授權式的規範 | |
277 | |
00:14:16,836 --> 00:14:19,336 | |
不過目前行政院的版本 | |
278 | |
00:14:19,336 --> 00:14:22,836 | |
處於一個相當粗糙的狀態 | |
279 | |
00:14:22,836 --> 00:14:25,836 | |
就是即使以我這個門外漢 | |
280 | |
00:14:25,836 --> 00:14:29,836 | |
對於數位韌性的定義無法完全 | |
281 | |
00:14:29,836 --> 00:14:33,836 | |
無法完全充分的解釋 | |
282 | |
00:14:33,836 --> 00:14:35,836 | |
然後我也不是技術人才 | |
283 | |
00:14:35,836 --> 00:14:38,836 | |
但是我看這個資通安全管理法 | |
284 | |
00:14:38,888 --> 00:14:40,888 | |
行政院推這個修正草案 | |
285 | |
00:14:40,888 --> 00:14:42,888 | |
從法律的觀點來講 | |
286 | |
00:14:42,888 --> 00:14:44,888 | |
問題一大堆 | |
287 | |
00:14:44,888 --> 00:14:46,888 | |
那有哪些問題包括了 | |
288 | |
00:14:46,888 --> 00:14:48,888 | |
什麼叫危害國家安全的資通產品 | |
289 | |
00:14:48,888 --> 00:14:50,888 | |
定義不明確 | |
290 | |
00:14:50,888 --> 00:14:52,888 | |
那第二個 | |
291 | |
00:14:52,888 --> 00:14:54,888 | |
對於他經營的型態 | |
292 | |
00:14:54,888 --> 00:14:56,888 | |
所謂受管制的公部門跟委外經營 | |
293 | |
00:14:56,888 --> 00:14:58,888 | |
到底怎麼樣來加以定義 | |
294 | |
00:14:58,888 --> 00:15:00,888 | |
那最嚴重的事情是 | |
295 | |
00:15:00,888 --> 00:15:02,888 | |
他完全欠缺後續 | |
296 | |
00:15:02,888 --> 00:15:04,888 | |
的處理措施 | |
297 | |
00:15:04,888 --> 00:15:06,888 | |
那我再回到 | |
298 | |
00:15:08,072 --> 00:15:10,072 | |
這個例子 | |
299 | |
00:15:10,072 --> 00:15:12,072 | |
這個例子如果按照我們行政院 | |
300 | |
00:15:12,072 --> 00:15:16,072 | |
現在在推的資通安全管理法的修正草案 | |
301 | |
00:15:16,072 --> 00:15:18,072 | |
這個問題能不能解決 | |
302 | |
00:15:18,072 --> 00:15:20,072 | |
會不會被資通安全管理法給規範到 | |
303 | |
00:15:20,072 --> 00:15:22,072 | |
賦予他任何法律授權 | |
304 | |
00:15:22,072 --> 00:15:24,072 | |
後續處理的基準 | |
305 | |
00:15:24,072 --> 00:15:26,072 | |
答案是NO | |
306 | |
00:15:26,072 --> 00:15:28,072 | |
還是沒有辦法處理得到 | |
307 | |
00:15:28,072 --> 00:15:30,072 | |
那這個 | |
308 | |
00:15:30,072 --> 00:15:32,072 | |
某個程度上面 | |
309 | |
00:15:32,072 --> 00:15:34,072 | |
在我國 | |
310 | |
00:15:34,072 --> 00:15:36,072 | |
針對這些事情在進行管制的時候 | |
311 | |
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:38,520 | |
真的很慢 | |
312 | |
00:15:39,100 --> 00:15:43,460 | |
那立法的品質也還處於粗糙的狀態 | |
313 | |
00:15:43,700 --> 00:15:47,280 | |
那這個是我們所有的立法者必須要承擔的責任 | |
314 | |
00:15:47,540 --> 00:15:50,360 | |
要接受社會的責難 社會的監督 | |
315 | |
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:52,160 | |
社會的批判 | |
316 | |
00:15:52,660 --> 00:15:54,960 | |
那只不過說在這整個立法 | |
317 | |
00:15:55,220 --> 00:15:57,020 | |
的過程當中的時候 | |
318 | |
00:15:57,020 --> 00:15:59,320 | |
因為這個草案今年7月才出來 | |
319 | |
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:01,620 | |
我大概過濾了一下 | |
320 | |
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,440 | |
發現了這個草案還存在蠻多的問題 | |
321 | |
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,260 | |
那今天有很多在這個領域 | |
322 | |
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,280 | |
是專家的先進 大家對於這個修正草案 | |
323 | |
00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,680 | |
到底有什麼樣子更進一步寶貴的指教意見 | |
324 | |
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,680 | |
都歡迎大家隨時提供給我們參考 | |
325 | |
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:19,680 | |
謝謝大家 謝謝 |
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