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June 11, 2010 06:43
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The default position is always to suspend judgement. Making an ontologically | |
positive assertion gives you the burden of proof. | |
Read it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance | |
If I tell you that I can fly, you will quite rightly ask for proof. You'd find | |
it foolish of me to say "prove that I can't"... | |
(http://twitter.com/codylindley/status/15883726017) "Rejecting a claim still | |
carries a burden of proof on the reject-er" - If the claim is independent of | |
other controversial claims and is not ontologically positive then I might agree. | |
But first, the existence of a God, or, at least, the Christian God, requires | |
submission in other matters, such as the creation of the universe, the existence | |
of Jesus, the assertion of heaven and hell, the possibility that an entity that | |
is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent can actually exist etc. | |
If we're just talking about a generic theistic belief, then I'm afraid the | |
burden of proof still lies on the claimant. It would be logically flawed in | |
judgement if I was to claim that Thor or Apollo existed and then deny you any | |
proof - other than "I know they do". | |
-- | |
http://str.typepad.com/weblog/2010/03/atheists-nonbelief-video.html | |
Cody, that video you posted was interesting, but I felt it was centrally flawed | |
in that he is saying that Atheists "do" have a belief. This may be true for | |
some -- it would be foolish for me to deny that -- but most atheists I've | |
spoken to simply see it as a suspension of judgement, or rather a | |
intellectually honest form of agnosticism. I think that claiming there ISN'T a | |
God would be as foolish as claiming that there IS... why should anyone have | |
either stance? I am open to the possibility of some higher entity, possibly | |
one that can reside throughout the universe, but that doesn't mean I submit to | |
the man-made constructions of God to appease the void of knowledge that I have | |
about such a possible entity. Neither do I parade about trying to convince | |
others of this entity. | |
The reason Atheists are loud about it, and choose to write books and articles, | |
is because various religions around the world are impeding upon our freedoms | |
(our, as in, EVERYONE) simply because some figment of their mind has told them | |
that what we're doing might be wrong, oh and that we have no moral values etc... | |
I mean, really, do you need a commandment from an unknown higher power in order | |
for you to appreciate the ethical case for not killing someone? | |
What you believe in your own mind is obviously up to you... But what right do | |
you have to spread your beliefs as truths? ... and to create laws based on | |
your beliefs? (see Sharia law) | |
You have to understand that, I, at least, treat the proposition of a God, | |
equally to that of the boogie man, fairies, phantom energy, and even the | |
existence of other life in the universe. These are all simply claims, nothing | |
more. If I am to say one is true than I must be satisfied that I've received a | |
decent amount of proof, otherwise on what basis am I asserting such truths? | |
Do you have proof for God? I mean scientific proof - not some dream you had - | |
and not something about God saving a relative who would have surely died... | |
for such an occurrence could be attributed to any number of medical phenomenon. | |
I mean, do _you_ have proof? | |
If not, then you have no logical basis for believing in this God, nor should | |
you try and convince others of your belief with scary rhetoric and commandments. | |
==== | |
EDIT | |
==== | |
I have to say a couple more things about that video Cody posted. | |
He says: | |
"I agree that nobody has to give any evidence for their belief that there are | |
NO fairies under the house, and the reason is, that there is no reason to | |
believe that there might be some fairies, so simply a rejection of the idea | |
is completely appropriate" | |
Yet he claims that we can take no such position on God, simply because many | |
people believe in God. | |
This is a logical fallacy known as "Argumentum ad populum". Just because many | |
people believe something doesn't mean it's true. | |
So, in other words, he says that it's okay for me to say that fairies don't | |
exist without having to provide proof of that, yet if I want to claim that | |
God doesn't exist, I must provide evidence. | |
You didn't require evidence to start believing in God, so why should you | |
need evidence to stop? | |
As Hitchens said: | |
"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." | |
Perhaps, his video is simply an attempt at rationalising his flawed claims. | |
--- | |
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/4633/18181940conventionallogml2.jpg | |
http://jgero.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/ricky-gervais-on-being-an-atheist.jpg |
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Well put, James. This is more or less exactly what I was trying to convey in 140 characters.
I don't understand, though, why this offends so many (of my fellow) Christians. Atheists merely want to live (minimally in law) without being affected by the things others have forced on them, a pretty basic human right. This has no bearing on a Christian's ability to believe what he or she wants. It's perfectly fair.