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pratul/gist:186297

Created September 13, 2009 19:32
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A discussion on an SVG based presentation tool and editor
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gistfile1.weechatlog
22:13 no_mind : so why not make a presentation cretor/manager based on SVG
22:13 lut4rp : web based?
22:13 no_mind : SVG provides you will all the features that you need in a slide including animation
22:14 no_mind : plus SVG will auto scale
22:14 lut4rp : Hmmm...
22:14 no_mind : same slide will work on desktop and web without any changes
22:14 PiyushK : html5++
22:14 lut4rp : I like it so far
22:14 lut4rp : :)
22:14 no_mind : any SVG viewer can be used
22:15 no_mind : and you can have a web based editor for the SVG
22:15 lifeeth : pdf presentations arent good enough?
22:15 no_mind : lifeeth: you cant create presentations in pdf
22:15 lut4rp : lifeeth, no bling :)
22:15 no_mind : you need costly pdf writers for the same
22:15 lifeeth : I dont think so
22:15 lifeeth : you can create pdf presentations with python
22:16 no_mind : with SVG you can make presentation using SVG itself and then us JS to create teh slide show or what ever you want to
22:16 PiyushK : lifeeth++ even using java too
22:16 lut4rp : PiyushK, lifeeth where is the bling?
22:16 no_mind : lifeeth: we are not talking of API but software
22:16 lifeeth : :D
22:16 lifeeth : we can use impressive for the out put and some sort of an editor to interact with python -pdf / latex stuff
22:16 no_mind : lifeeth: plus pdf presentations do not scale
22:17 lifeeth : common -- if a presnetation has normal images .. they wont scale either
22:17 lifeeth : and if it is test.. scaling doesnt really matter--
22:17 lut4rp : true
22:17 no_mind : test ?
22:17 jai : you cant embed svgs in pdf??
22:17 PiyushK : yes
22:17 no_mind : and you cant do animations with pdf
22:17 lifeeth : * text
22:18 no_mind : you cant have transition effects with pdf
22:18 lifeeth : no_mind, you can ;)
22:18 lifeeth : no_mind, try impressive please :D
22:18 no_mind : you cant have timed transitions with pdf
22:18 lifeeth : impressive.sourceforge.net
22:18 lifeeth : please :D
22:18 lut4rp : ooh fun!
22:18 lut4rp : opensource++
22:19 PiyushK : impressive++
22:19 PiyushK : python++
22:19 lut4rp : ZOMG this looks awesome
22:19 lut4rp : lifeeth++
22:19 lifeeth : http://www.tjansson.dk/?p=499
22:19 chaddi_buddy : /me just sighs at lut4rp
22:19 lut4rp : chaddi_buddy, chup kar
22:19 no_mind : no timed transition, no animations
22:19 lifeeth : We can extend it ;)
22:19 lut4rp : true, we can
22:19 no_mind : and embedding a pdf inside a browser is not easy
22:19 lifeeth : Oh! wait.. I think you can do that
22:20 lifeeth : * I mean timed transitions
22:20 no_mind : and you still need some other software to create teh pdf
22:20 lifeeth : people are going to kill me for what I am going to say next :)
22:20 lut4rp : not possible to kill over IRC yet.
22:20 lut4rp : DAMN.
22:20 lifeeth : for the web .. use jvm and put jython on it and run this there :D
22:20 lut4rp : rofl
22:20 jai : lifeeth: lmao
22:20 PiyushK : it use pygame - so we can extend to have animations too
22:21 lut4rp : jai, KICK
22:21 lut4rp : jai, KICK
22:21 lut4rp : jai, KICK
22:21 no_mind : I am talking of a suite to create the presentation and not execute
22:21 jai : lut4rp: he will *kill* me when me meet in person
22:21 lifeeth : no_mind, I understand
22:21 jai : lut4rp: so no ;)
22:21 lifeeth : I meant.. half of it is done
22:21 lut4rp : jai, dar gaya tu?
22:21 lifeeth : if i remember it right there were some plugins /scripts which handle presentation on the web as well
22:21 no_mind : lifeeth: easy to launch a pdf reader inside browser than this
22:21 lifeeth : just need to package them all
22:22 jai : lut4rp: abe pics nahi dekhe kya osscamp ke, bhim ka bada bhai hai lifeeth
22:22 lut4rp : jai, lawly
22:22 lifeeth : :)
22:22 no_mind : but with svg, you embed the presentaiton with simple tags
22:22 lifeeth : no_mind, and animation / transitions / winblows support :
22:22 lifeeth : :)
22:22 PiyushK : no_mind Swagat sen - educationist also suggested to have a presentation software in usb - so that he can run his presentations from there only
22:23 lifeeth : PiyushK, I met him and told him about the pico projectors :)
22:23 jai : one more user unwilling to code ;)
22:23 PiyushK : lifeethguru++
22:23 no_mind : PiyushK: but with SVG you canrun the presentaiton from any browser, just switch to full screen mode if you want to
22:23 no_mind : lifeeth: I do nto understand ?
22:23 no_mind : not*
22:23 lifeeth : no_mind, I understand that part.. but are transitions possible with svg?
22:24 no_mind : lifeeth: yup using JS
22:24 PiyushK : lifeeth - yes
22:24 PiyushK : record replay
22:24 lifeeth : But those things already exist :)
22:24 no_mind : lifeeth: SVG allows you to embed java script inside image to do manipulation
22:24 PiyushK : timemeasurement
22:24 lifeeth : Ok
22:24 PiyushK : yep
22:25 no_mind : lifeeth: please open this in firefox http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/DRAWINGS/clock2.svg and enjoy the show
22:25 PiyushK : no_mind count me in and lets start the Proj. :)
22:25 PiyushK : cool
22:26 lifeeth : no_mind, what about the IE users?
22:26 PiyushK : IE--
22:26 lifeeth : and please dont give me the bull about shifting everyone to ff :)
22:26 lifeeth : that wont happen for a while
22:26 no_mind : google has launched a JS based project to allow IE users to view SVG
22:26 lifeeth : ok
22:26 lifeeth : but it wont support the transitions soon I guess
22:26 no_mind : here http://code.google.com/p/svgweb/
22:27 no_mind : lifeeth: transitions are nothign but JS code
22:27 lifeeth : ok ok
22:27 no_mind : also the next revision of SVG standard will have animations built in
22:27 lifeeth : Coming to a web based WYSIWYG
22:28 PiyushK : svg++
22:28 no_mind : in transition JS code will load another section of the image with belnding
22:28 lifeeth : dont get me wrong .. I am just analyzing the aspects before saying yaay! :)
22:28 no_mind : blending part is what we need to code
22:28 no_mind : lifeeth: I appreciate this
22:28 no_mind : that is why I am responding to you without bashing :)
22:29 lifeeth : + has anyone benchmarked heavy svgs?
22:29 lifeeth : I mean ones with js embedded..
22:29 lifeeth : since some one is doing the math
22:29 no_mind : lifeeth: the svg I have pointed to is not light
22:30 lifeeth : Just checked .. it does use a lot of resources :\
22:30 no_mind : no proof exists yet
22:31 no_mind : we need to first create a heavy SVG to bench mark
22:31 lifeeth : SVG's are vectors.. => some one needs to convert them to images that we see
22:31 lifeeth : => some one needs to work
22:31 no_mind : lifeeth: that is the work of the browser
22:31 lifeeth : the scalability does come with a price
22:32 no_mind : I think the probelm here is not SVg-> image
22:32 lifeeth : + the js :)
22:32 no_mind : but the problem will be ancent JS engines in most browsers
22:33 no_mind : ancient*
22:34 lifeeth : Yup
22:34 lifeeth : so portability vs performance
22:34 no_mind : svg-> image convertion will be as intesive as the HTML rendring with loads of images and css
22:34 no_mind : lifeeth: but that is a problem with almost all ajax based apps
22:34 lifeeth : True.. but rendering images is way different from rendering svg
22:35 no_mind : try the above example on google chrome, you will surely notice abcense of jerks
22:35 no_mind : lifeeth: rendering svg is not that costly
22:35 lifeeth : Ok
22:36 lifeeth : True..
22:36 no_mind : you can hunt for svg examples in inkscape and try to load them in the browser to check yourslef
22:36 lifeeth : it is way better on chrome :)
22:37 lifeeth : Ok.. assume that this is just a small quirk..
22:37 lut4rp : anything JS is way better on Chrome and Safari
22:37 lut4rp : even Opera
22:37 no_mind : lifeeth: and for animation the real culprit is JS and not SVG
22:37 lifeeth : the UI for svg gen will be a bit intense :D
22:37 lifeeth : Got that
22:37 lut4rp : no_mind, jquery effects :)
22:37 lifeeth : lut4rp, ahem.. jquery is js if you know :)
22:38 lut4rp : lifeeth, really? I didn't know!
22:38 kitallis : wtf?
22:39 lut4rp : kitallis, wot?
22:39 kitallis : 22:37 lifeeth : lut4rp, ahem.. jquery is js if you know :)
22:39 no_mind : try these http://www.carto.net/papers/svg/samples/
22:39 kitallis : 22:38 lut4rp : lifeeth, really? I didn't know!
22:39 kitallis : :/
22:39 lut4rp : kitallis, he's kidding obviously :)
22:39 lut4rp : and so am I
22:39 kitallis : oic
22:39 no_mind : lifeeth: but there is a difference in palin JS and jquery. Jquery already has optimized functions for XPATH and Xquery to speed up element location
22:40 lifeeth : kitallis--
22:40 lifeeth : no_mind, Ok...
22:40 no_mind : see this too http://www.croczilla.com/~alex/old-site/lion.xml
22:40 lut4rp : lifeeth, I was referring to jquery effects, the lib that's part of jquery UI
22:40 no_mind : kind of heavy SVG
22:41 lifeeth : lut4rp, /me understood that :)
22:41 lut4rp : lifeeth, lol :P
22:41 no_mind : do a view source on lion file and enjoy
22:41 lut4rp : omfg
22:41 lut4rp : this is hell :O
22:42 lut4rp : i bet he made this in inkscape and saved :)
22:42 lifeeth : no_mind, point noted ;)
22:42 no_mind : lut4rp: we do have a jquery plugin for svg but never used it much
22:42 no_mind : lut4rp: but did you notice the load time on the mule called Firefox
22:43 lut4rp : no_mind, lol
22:43 lifeeth : http://www.iitk.ac.in/drpg/currentcamp.htm -> fail
22:43 no_mind : infact with using more SVg we are giving some tough love to browser authors
22:43 lifeeth : :)
22:44 lut4rp : lifeeth, lawl
22:44 no_mind : I can donate INR 10/- for this cause
22:45 lifeeth : no_mind, seriously?
22:45 pronoy : seen GeneralMaximus?
22:45 chaddi_buddy : GeneralMaximus was last seen in #hackers-india 3 hours 18 min ago saying 'BAI'.
22:45 no_mind : had I been an American, I would have donated $10/-
22:45 no_mind : I am just changing the currency
22:45 lifeeth : no_mind, so I guess if I said .. I was a hungry indian in need of some money.. you will send in a lot?
22:46 no_mind : lifeeth: sure I will send you meal coupons :)
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