Bad: "Do you think it;s a good idea?"
Fix: You might ask them to show you how they currently do their job. Talk about which parts they love and hate. Ask which other tools and
processes they tried before settling on this one. Are they actively searching
for a replacement? If so, what’s the sticking point? If not, why not? Where
are they losing money with their current tools? Is there a budget for better
ones? Now, take all that information and decide for yourself whether it’s a
good idea.
Bad: "Would you buy a product which did X?"
The answer to a question like this is almost always “yes”
Fix: Ask how they currently solve X and how much it costs (money/time) them to do so. If they haven’t solved the problem, ask why not.
Bad: "How much would you pay for X?"
Fix: Just like the others, fix it by asking about their life as it already is. How much does the problem cost them? How much do they
currently pay to solve it.
Note: People will lie to you if they think it’s what you want to hear
Bad: "What would your dream product do?"
Fix: Sort-of-okay question, but only if you ask good follow-ups. The value comes from understanding why they want these features. You don’t want to just collect feature requests. But the motivations and constraints behind those requests are critical.
Good: "Why do you bother?"
Reason: Good question. I love this sort of question. It’s great for getting from the perceived problem to the real one.
For example, some founders I knew were talking to finance guys spending hours each day sending emails about their spreadsheets. The finance guys
were asking for better messaging tools so they could save time. The “why do you bother” question led to “so we can be certain that we’re all working
off the latest version.” Aha. The solution ended up being less like the requested messaging tool and more like Dropbox. A question like “why do
you bother” points toward their motivations. It gives you the why.
Good "What are the implications of that?"
Reason: Good question. This distinguishes between I-will-pay-to-solve-that problems and thats-kind-of-annoying-but-I-can-deal-with-it “problems”.
Rule of thumb: Some problems don’t actually matter.
Good: "Talk me through the last time that happened."
Reason: Good question.Whenever possible, you want to be shown, not told by your customers. Learn through their actions instead of their opinions
If you ran a burger joint, it would be stupid to survey your
customers about whether they prefer cheeseburgers or hamburgers. Just watch what they buy (but if you’re trying to understand why they prefer one
over the other, you’ll have to talk to them).
Seeing it first hand can provide unique insight into murky situations. But if you can’t get in there, asking them to talk you through the last time it happened.
Rule of thumb: Watching someone do a task will show you where the problems and inefficiencies really are, not where the customer thinks they are.
Good "What else have you tried?"
Reason What are they using now? How much does it cost and what do they love and hate about it? How much would those fixes be worth and
how big of a pain would it be for them to switch to a new solution?
Rule of thumb: If they haven't looked for ways of solving it already, they're not going to look for (or buy) yours.
Bad: "Would you pay X for a product which did Y?"
Fix: Bad question. The fact that you’ve added a number doesn’t help.
As always, ask about what they currently do now, not what they believe they might do in the future. Common wisdom is that you price your product in terms of value to the customer rather than cost to you.
Another way to fix it, if you’re far enough along, is to literally ask for money. If you have the deposit or pre-order in hand, you know they were telling the truth.
Good "How are you dealing with it now?"
Reason Good question. Beyond workflow information, this gives you a price anchor. If they’re paying £100/month for a duct-tape workaround, you know which ballpark you're playing in. On the other hand, they may have spent
£120,000 this year on agency fees to maintain a site you're replacing. If that's the case, you don't want to be having the £100 conversation
Rule of thumb: While it’s rare for someone to tell you precisely what they’ll pay you, they’ll often show you what it’s worth to them.
Good: "Where does the money come from?"
Reason: Good question. This isn't something you would necessarily ask a consumer
(though you might), but in a B2B context it’s a must-ask.
Often, you'll find yourself talking to someone other than the budget owner.
Your future pitches will hit unseen snags unless you learn who else matters and what they care about.
Good: "Who else should I talk to?"
Reason: Good question. Yes! End every conversation like this.
If someone doesn’t want to make intros, that’s cool too. Just leave them be. You’ve learned that you’re either screwing up the meeting (probably by being too formal, pitchy, or clingy) or they don’t actually care about the problem you’re solving.
Good: "Is there anything else I should have asked?"
Reason: Since you don’t know the industry, they’ll often be sitting there quietly while you completely miss the most important point.
Rule of thumb: People want to help you, but will rarely do so unless you give them an excuse to do so.
- The questions to ask are about your customers’ lives: their problems, cares, constraints, and goals.
- It boils down to this: you aren’t allowed to tell them what their problem is, and in return, they aren’t allowed to tell you what to build.
They say that to bankrupt a fool, give him information.
There are three types of bad data:
- Compliments
- Fluff (generics, hypotheticals, and the future)
- Ideas
- Most of your meetings will end with a compliment. It feels good. They said they liked it!
Note: refer to pages 26, 27 for a bad/good conversation example.
Fluff comes in 3 cuddly shapes:
- Generic claims (“I usually”, "I always", "I never")
- Future-tense promises (“I would”, "I will")
- Hypothetical maybes ("I might", "I could")
When someone starts talking about what they “always” or “usually” or “never” or “would” do, they are giving you generic and hypothetical fluff. Follow The Mom Test and bring them back to specifics in the past. Ask when it last happened, for them to talk you through it, how they solved it, and what else they tried.
The world’s most deadly fluff is: “I would definitely buy that.”
Note: Page 31 for good example of anchoring of fluff.
Entrepreneurs are always drowning in ideas. We have too many ideas, not too few. Still, folks adore giving us more. Write them down, but don’t rush to add them to your todo list. Startups are about focusing and executing on a single, scalable idea rather than jumping on every good one which crosses your desk.
Rule of thumb: If you’ve mentioned your idea, people will try to protect your feelings.
-
If you have $50K and spend $50K on validating the idea that's bad.
-
If you have $50K and spend $5K to learn you are running down the a dead end, that's awesome.
-
if you have an exciting idea for a new product and go talk to a couple customers who don’t actually care about it, then that’s a great result.
-
You’re searching for the truth, not trying to be right. And you want to do it as quickly and cheaply as possible.
-
Lukewarm is a terrific response. It gives you a crystal clear signal that this person does not care. It’s perfectly reliable information you can take to the bank.
-
The classic error in response to a lukewarm signal is to “up your game” and pitch them until they say something nice.
Rule of thumb: There’s more reliable information in a “meh” than a “Wow!” You can’t build a business on a lukewarm response.
-
Generally avoid mentioning the idea immediately since it gives them a good idea of which answers you’re hoping to hear
-
Good : “Hey Rob, what are the top problems with your blog?”
-
Bad: “Hey Rob, what are the top problems with your keyword marketing” --> too specific
-
Good: “Hey XX, what are the top problems with your Marketing?” --> Generally marketing is a problem for SMB, so we can zoom-in here.
“Does-this-problem-matter” questions:
- “Which tools and services do you use for it?”
- “What are you already doing to improve this?”
- “What are the 3 big things you’re trying to fix or improve right now?”
- “Do you make money from it?”
Rule of thumb: Start broad and don't zoom in until you’ve found a strong signal, both with your whole business and with every conversation.
- If the customer has the money/budget to buy this very important problem you are solving?
The key phrase of “if you could get me more gigs” is basically shifting the burden from the customer to your product. Even though you’ve found a pain, your success is dependent on a bunch of other factors (don't overlook any):
- Product Risk: Can I build/Grow/Keep it?
- Market Risk: Do they want it? Will they pay? Are there enough of them?
-
It would be tragic to succeed at the hard work of creating the technology or community only to learn nobody will pay for it.
-
The conversations with customers will not tell you much if you have product rsik (not able to build or building a hard product)
-
Always pre-plan the 3 most important things you want to learn from any given type of person.
-
If we go through an unplanned, we tend to focus on trivial stuff which keeps the conversation comfortable.
-
These questions might vary from customer to customer for same idea.
-
Instead of exchanging business cards so you can "grab a coffee" (exactly like everyone else), you can just pop off most important questions.
Rule of thumb: You always need a list of your 3 big questions.
Asking from a publix speaker, I’m just going to immediately transition into my most important question: “Hey, I’m curious—how did you end up getting this gig?”
When you strip all the formality from the process, you end up with no eetings, no interview questions, and a much easier time.
Rule of thumb: Learning about a customer and their problems works better as a quick and casual chat than a long, formal meeting.
The meeting anti-pattern is the tendency to relegate every opportunity for customer conversation into a calendar block and firmality.
Symptomds of formality:
- "So, first off, thanks for agreeing to this interview.."
- "On a scale of 1 to 5, how.."
Be casual, use every opportunity, to getr feedback. Maybe in cofe or bar after conference, etc.
Rule of thumb: If it feels like they’re doing you a favour by talking to you, it’s probably too formal.
- Early conversations are really fast.
- It takes 5 mins to learn weather a problem exists AND is important.
- It takes usually 10-15 mins as you listen to their stories and workfows.
- You might try to keep formal meetings casual too.
Rule of thumb: Give as little information as possible about your idea while still nudging the discussion in a useful direction.
In sales, moving a sales relationship to the next stage is called "advancement". They'll either move forward or make it clear that they're not a customer.
Commitment and advancement are separate concepts:
- Commitment: They are sowing they are serious by giving up something they value e.g. time, money, reputation.
- Advancement: They are moving to next step of you funnel and getting close to sale.
Rule of thumb: “Customers” who keep being friendly but aren’t ever going to buy are a particularly dangerous source of mixed signals.
There is nothing called a meeting "went well". It either filed or succeeded.
If you leave wht meeting with worthless wishy washiess, you are probably fallig into of one or both ot these traps:
- You are asking for their opinion (fissing for compliments)
- You are not asking for a clear commitment or next steps.
How to deal with compliments: Igonre, deflect and get back to business.
Real failure is #2, not asking. Rejection is not failure.
Rule of thumb: If you don’t know what happens next after a product or sales meeting, the meeting was pointless.
Compliments cost them nothing, it carries no data and value. The major currencies are:
- Time
- Reputation
- Risk
- Cash
A time commitment could include:
- Clear next meeting with known goals
- Using trial themselves for a non-trivial period
Reputation risk commitments might be:
- Intro to peers or team
- Intro to decision maker
- Giving public testimonial or case study
Financial:
- Letterof intent
- Pre-order
- Deposit
Rule of thumb: The more they’re giving up, the more seriously you can take their kind words.
Bad meeting:
- "That's cool. I love it!" (Fix: deflect the compliment)
- "Looks great. Let me know when it launches" (Fix: push for conversation cash to reveal the truth)
- "I would definitely buy that." --> The false positive danger! Fix: Shift to something concerete.
Moderate:
- "There are people I can introduce you when you are ready." (But it's so generic. Fix: convert it something concrete)
- "When can we start a trial?" Free/Trial software costs for company. Fix: take credit card/limit trial to one week/dont give free trial/sell the product but with one month cancelation policy. --> reveals the truth
Good meeting:
- "What are the next steps?"
Great meeting:
- "Can I buy the prototype?" Best conclusion, rarely-heard
- "When can you come back and talk to rest of the team"
Rule of thumb: It’s not a real lead until you’ve given them a concrete chance to reject you.
Startup sales meeting:
+ "We do X. Want to buy it?"
- "No thanks."
Ask The Mom Test questions instead. Then confirm by selling it.
-
It's pretty weird that anybody buys anything from young startup.
-
First customers are crazy. They really really want what you are making.
Early customers are people who:
- Have the problem
- Know they have problem
- Have budget to solve the problem
- Have already cobbled together their own makeshift solution
They are the componay who will commit. Keep them on the list but don't count them until they write the first check.
Rule of thumb: In early stage sales, the real goal is learning. Revenue is just a side-effect.
- Cold calls
- 98% rejection, but that is the reality
- You only need one or to from 100 calls to say yes to start thr intro train
- Find a good excuse
- it is a good coffee. Can I talk to the owner?
- Immerse yourself in where they are
- Go to conferences/or enywhere where the potential customers are
- pepole are happy to talk about their problems
- Landing pages
- Buffer founder used landing page to describe the value proposition and collecting emails. Then emaild them to say hi.
- Paul Graham: Launch generic and get your product there, see who likes it most and then reach out to them.
When you are approaching customer they are suspicis if you are wasting their time. Try to bring tem to you. How?
- organise meetups
- No one follows this but it is very effective
- Speaking and teaching
- Free teaching
- Blogging
- Workshops
- videos
- free consulting
- Industry blogging
- Start blogging today
- Build audience and ask people to get in touch
It is easier to get an intro from a friend or such.
- 7 degrees of beacon
- Rule of thumb: Kevin Bacon’s 7 degrees of separation applies to customer conversations. You can find anyone you need if you ask for it a couple times.
- Industry advisors
- His advisors had 0.5% share and got him many intros
- High quality
- Universities
- Professors are gold mines of intros
- Investors
- cash in favors (people who said it is a great idea)
- Reply back to ancient email and tell them you are ready for an intro
- You'll get ignored a lot, but who cares?
If you are not prepared, then:
- meeting turns to a sales meeting
- Attention shifts to you instead of them
- it's going to be the worst sales meeting because you were not ready.
Symptoms:
- "Um, So..."
- "How's it going?"
Avoid these:
- "can I interview you?"
- "Can I get your opinion on what we are building?"
- "Do you have time for a quick coffee?"
Frame the meeting with these 5 key elements:
- You are an entrepreneur trying to solve horrible problem X, usher in wonderful vision Y, or fix stagnant industry Z. Don't mention your idea.
- Frame expectations by mentioning what stage you are and, if it's true, you don't have anything to sell.
- Show weakness and give thme a chance to help
- Put them on a pedestal by showing how much they, in particular. can help
- Ask for help
Or, in shorter form: Vision / Framing / Weakness / Pedestal / Ask
Example:
Hey Pete, I'm trying to make desk & office rental less of a pain for new businesses (vision). We're just starting out and don't have anything to sell, but want to make sure we're building something that actually helps (framing).
I've only ever come at it from the tenant's side and I'm having a hard time understanding how it all works from the landlord's perspective (weakness).
You've been renting out desks for a while and could really help me cut through the fog (pedestal). Do you have time in the next couple weeks to meet up for a chat?(ask)
People like to help entrepreneurs. But they also hate wasting their time.
Once the meeting starts, you have to grab the reins or it's liable to turn into them drilling you on your idea, which is exactly what you don't want.
To do this, I basically repeat what I said in the email and then immediately drop into the first question
- Meeting are prefereble (Friendliness, body language etc).
- Phone calls are too formal
- Skype is prefered over phone call
- Some people recommend phone calls on the other hand
- Use whatever works
- Find knowledgable people
- UX community says keep talking until you stop hearing new things.
- 3-5 conversations for simple industry
- If it is over 10 and still getting fuzzy results , the segment is too loose.
- It is about quickly learning
Rule of thumb: Keep having conversations until you stop hearing new stuff.
If you start too generic, everything is watered down. Your marketing message is generic. You suffer feature creep. Google helped PhD students find obscure bits of code. EBay helped collectors buy and sell Pez dispensers.
Rule of thumb: If you aren’t finding consistent problems and goals, you don’t yet have a specific enough customer segment.
Find groups of customers who would use your service/app and the drill down (customer slicing). Start with a broad segment and ask:
- Whithin this group, which type of this person would want it most?
- Would everyone within this group buy/use it or only some?
- Why do they want to use it? (problem/goal?)
- does everyone in the group have that motivation or only some?
- What additional motivations are there?
- Which other types of people have these motivations?
Examle slicing: "Students" --> "non-native speaking PhD students about to graduate" You drilled down and found a few customer groups. Now you can decide who to start with based on who seems most:
- Profitable
- Easy to reach
- Rewarding for us to build a business arround
Then go talk to them. Sponsor events for them etc. Find where they are.
-
If you just show up to meetings and hope for the best, you aren't making a good use of anyone's time.
-
The most extreme way to bottleneck is to go to the meetings alone and take crappy notes which you don’t review with your team.
Symptoms of a learning bottleneck:
- “You just worry about the product. I’ll learn what we need to know.”
- “Because the customers told me so!”
- “I don’t have time to talk to people — I need to be coding!”
Avoiding bottlenecks has three parts: prepping, reviewing, and taking good notes.
- Prepare 3 most important questions with the help of team.
- do your homework and research obious stuff or what you can find fron internet/linkedin or company website.
Rule of thumb: If you don’t know what you’re trying to learn, you shouldn’t bother having the conversation.
Review 3 important question with team.
-
Everyone on the team who is making big decisions (including tech decisions) needs to go to at least some of the meetings.
-
You can't outsource or hire someone to do customer learning.
-
When possible, write down exact quotes.
-
Any strong emotion is worth writing down. Capture the big emotions and remember to dig into them when they come up (with emoticons: :), :| etc).
- If you haven’t yet, choose a focused, findable segment
- With your team, decide your big 3 learning goals
- If relevant, decide on ideal next steps and commitments
- If conversations are the right tool, figure out who to talk to
- Create a series of best guesses about what the person cares about
- If a question could be answered via desk research, do that first
- Frame the conversation
- Keep it casual
- Ask good questions which pass The Mom Test
- Deflect compliments, anchor fluff, and dig beneath signals
- Take good notes
- If relevant, press for commitment and next steps
- With your team, review your notes and key customer quotes
- If relevant, transfer notes into permanent storage
- Update your beliefs and plans
- Decide on the next 3 big questions
- The point is to make your business move faster, not slower.
- Don’t spend a week prepping for meetings; spend an hour and then go talk to people.
- Don’t spend months doing full-time customer conversations before beginning to move on a product. Spend a week, maybe two. Get your bearings and then give them something to commit to.
Rule of thumb: Go build your dang company already.
Is available at the end of the book.