gistfile1.txt

Matthew Cooperrider
16:00
HELLO ALL - WHO IS HERE FOR THE MEETING?
Suresh Fernando
16:00
Hi Chris
Matthew Cooperrider
16:00
Roll call!
david pinto
16:01
present
Chris Watkins
16:01
thanks, happy
Michael Maranda
16:01
present arms
Suresh Fernando
16:01
me
tav
16:01
boo
david pinto
16:01
how long you been concentrating on water
16:01
 
welcome tav heheh
Chris Watkins
16:01
I'm still catching up with where I am 
Michael Maranda
16:02
main page of the wagn http://wiki.openkollab.com will help
Matthew Cooperrider
16:02
Here's our proposed agenda for today:
16:02
 
-The OpenKollab Platform: What do our web services do now, and what will they do in the future? -The Roadmap: What is our longer term plan? -Project Mapping: How will we gather the necessary information to map projects and realte them to each
Chris Watkins
16:02
(david: if that was directed at me... did water engineering, graduated 1997. Then decided knowledge sharing was the critical issue, rather than just needing more engineers)
16:03
 
(thanks Michael)
Tom Glaisyer has left the chat
16:02
Suresh Fernando
16:03
Chris and David, since you two are new this group and process. Could you say a few words about your projects and your interest in OK. Will have us some context
16:03
 
*give us context
Michael Maranda
16:04
appreicating that Chirs heard about OK in last 5 minutes
Suresh Fernando
16:04
no problem
❦
Gerry Gleason waves
16:04
Suresh Fernando
16:04
hi gerry
Matthew Cooperrider
16:05
looks like we have a small group of new folks, let's just take time to bring them up to speed
Chris Watkins
16:05
ok, back from checking the wiki 
david pinto
16:05
(cool chris... i'd love to know more.... water is the issue and happy to increase it in terms of priority wrt collective strategy)
Matthew Cooperrider
16:06
Chris any questions or thoughts?
Chris Watkins
16:06
Appropedia is about knowledge sharing for abundance - making available to everyone the detailed wisdom and info resources for better lives, ending poverty, sustaining our earth.
16:06
 
(what might also be called sustainable development)
david pinto
16:07
yes, it is an excellent resource
Suresh Fernando
16:07
Is app just an info repository or does it support projects in any way?
Michael Maranda
16:07
great group
david pinto
16:07
is it your primary hub/vehicle/community?
Chris Watkins
16:08
Matt: the goal of OK looks good - and the awareness that it's been attempted but specific issues need addressing. Still need to read the details.
Matthew Cooperrider
16:08
yeah, there's already a lot there
16:08
 
our current strategy is to try to map relationships between existing projects
Chris Watkins
16:08
App is first and foremost about the info, but in practice we do some connecting, and see how we can help groups collaborate better.
16:09
 
David: Appropedia is my primary focus, yes.
Suresh Fernando
16:09
Chris, how is App funded? ... or how does it sustain itself?
Gerry Gleason
16:09
What is your role with App."
Chris Watkins
16:09
it's not a big community, in terms of the committed people, but it's close and passionate.
Matthew Cooperrider
16:09
we're trying to establish a process for mapping projects like App - what are their needs? what surplus resources can they offer to potential collaborators?
Michael Maranda
16:10
as w/ many wiki's it's also a community of pracitce  -might not want to overwhelm Chris 
Suresh Fernando
16:10
David, can you say a bit about more about what you are working on
Chris Watkins
16:11
Suresh: App is supported by irresponsible people like myself with either a job to support them, or a reckless disregard for personal finances.
Suresh Fernando
16:11
cool - just like us 
Matthew Cooperrider
16:11
sounds familiar
david pinto
16:11
+++ heheh
Chris Watkins
16:12
dumpsterdenizen: Officially, I'm one of the directors of the Foundation. Day to day, I manage the Identica/Twitter accounts, reach out to people, encourage sharing, look at ways to get major imports of content.
Gerry Gleason
16:12
We are all beginning to see our work as pieces of a larger collective work, and forming the intentions to work effectively in collaborations across all organizational scales.
Suresh Fernando
16:12
@gerry - exactly!
Chris Watkins
16:13
dumpsterdenizen = gerry?
Michael Maranda
16:13
yes
Suresh Fernando
16:13
The collaboration process is GENERATIVE AND CO-CREATIVE. Hence the first step is to commit to collaborate...open the conversations and figure things out together
Joe Solomon
16:13
<<Quick intro to myself: Excited about OpenKollab Project - Connected w/Suresh in Vancouver & write about web-facilitated collaboration in the social change sector - http://www.netsquared.org/blog/joesolomon/ - In New York @ moment>>
david pinto
16:14
ONE: i am a tron monk  hoping to highlight the significance of a simple os computer game, armagetron, as a critical move in collective strategy... potentially very useful in terms of self-organising experience.... http://www.prezi.com/131651 though perhaps a video might be better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVq1CWyAcsQ
Suresh Fernando
16:14
Whatever we do will be created together and will, therefore, take each of us in a different direction
Matthew Cooperrider
16:14
Joe I'm in Brooklyn
Suresh Fernando
16:14
Hey Joe - thanks for jumping in!
Michael Maranda
16:14
hello Joe -- I know you mainly in context of netSquared
david pinto
16:14
@gerry @suresh ++ 'We are all beginning to see our work as pieces of a larger collective work, and forming the intentions to work effectively in collaborations across all organizational scales'
Chris Watkins
16:15
Hi Joe. Did I meet you at Hollyhock, at the Open Everything retreat?
Suresh Fernando
16:15
David - more generally are you interested in virtual spaces as a driver for collab processes?
Michael Maranda
16:15
so, we've opted for 1 hr meeting, with hangers on beyond that
Gerry Gleason
16:15
I think part of it is finding common language to understand the processes and flows of collaboration.  We've talked in terms of needs and offers, which is an aspect of it, but I see that talking of intentions and interests gives more power, particularly for collective interests and intentions.
Joe Solomon
16:15
@Matt, @Suresh @Michael - Thanks for the welcome - Looking forward to listenning and contributing where I can! @Chris - You did not  Keep meaning to go to WebofChange!
Chris Watkins
16:16
well, pleased to meet you now, Joe.
16:16
 
purely from curiosity, and I the token non-North American?
Suresh Fernando
16:16
@gerry... I like that. We'll need to just get working on collaborating and define our 'meta-structure' as we move along
Joe Solomon
16:16
@Chris Pleasure's mutual!
Michael Maranda
16:17
@Chris, no
Chris Watkins
16:17
*am I* not "and I*
david pinto
16:17
ah, sureshi, yes.. though i believe virtual should be minimal in order to maximise physical engagement 
Michael Maranda
16:17
Tav is in UK, for example
Matthew Cooperrider
16:17
NOTE: the official home of openkollab is our IRC channel #openkollab on freenode - can be accessed from http://openkollab.com
david pinto
16:17
i am in uk too
Matthew Cooperrider
16:17
at the moment we are conducting interviews there, asking peple how their project can fit into the larger context
Suresh Fernando
16:18
Yeah... those that are interested in digging deeper on this project, please join the #openkollab IRC channel
tav
16:19
http://openkollab.com/chat
Suresh Fernando
16:19
The next important phase in this project is: PROJECT MAPPING
Matthew Cooperrider
16:19
would like to interview chris about appropedia
Suresh Fernando
16:19
@matt - OK. right now
16:19
 
could do it as a test case
Chris Watkins
16:20
(mattcoop14: would be glad to. But I'm in SE Asia atm, might be easier to interview our more eloquent founder, Lonny )
Matthew Cooperrider
16:20
chris: we just mean a chat interview
Chris Watkins
16:20
that's cool
Matthew Cooperrider
16:20
we're asking standard questions, so that we can mine the data later
Suresh Fernando
16:21
are just trying to determine what sort of information about a project we need to assist in the project mapping process
16:21
 
This is a work in progress
Matthew Cooperrider
16:21
yeah, chris, you'd be helping us with a test case
Chris Watkins
16:21
I've done a lot of looking for and reaching out to related projects, so I've got a reasonable feel of the landscape in the field of green/development collaborations.
16:22
 
wrote up some of it at http://www.appropedia.org/Green_wikis_and_development_wikis
Suresh Fernando
16:22
Matt - fire away
Chris Watkins
16:22
any time with the interview, then.
Matthew Cooperrider
16:22
ok so your project is Appropedia? Link?
david pinto
16:23
chris, i saw that table before: impressive
Matthew Cooperrider
16:23
oh wait it's there: http://appropedia.org
Gerry Gleason
16:23

Matthew Cooperrider
16:23
chris: what is the overarching goal of appropedia?
Chris Watkins
16:23
thanks Matt. http://www.appropedia.org/ - front page needs work, but http://www.appropedia.org/Appropedia:About tells a bit about us
Gerry Gleason
16:25
Proposed questions: What are you most important intentions for your projects, the ones you are spending your time on now?
Chris Watkins
16:25
the goal - to empower through universal and free access to knowledge,
16:25
 
specifically the kinds of knowledge that enable us to live better, make better use of resources,
Matthew Cooperrider
16:25
what is the outcome that you would like to see in the world, that appropedia is helping you achieve?
Tom Crowl
16:25
Interesting stuff
Chris Watkins
16:25
carry out development projects more wisely, build more comfortable and affordable houses, grow more and better food etc etc
Gerry Gleason
16:25
Another: What are your interests in other projects?  What groups are delivering what you need to complete your intentions?
16:26
 
All of us should answer these questions, and do it again periodically.
Chris Watkins
16:26
Matt: a world that works for everybody. A world where people experience freedom and abundance (as opposed to slavery to poverty or excess).
david pinto
16:27
@gerry yes... its not profile info, but rather living goals and objectives and ideals we aspire to which are informed by our daily practice...
Matthew Cooperrider
16:27
goal is to create an abundant world
Gerry Gleason
16:27
Or to use Mark Diley's phrasing of Matt's question about outcomes:  How do we know that we  have done anything of value?
Chris Watkins
16:27
Gerry: We actively support open source, and ICT4D (Information and communication technologies for development)
Gerry Gleason
16:28
that's a project (ICT4D)?
Matthew Cooperrider
16:28
subgoals in service of that are "carry out development projects more wisely, build more comfortable and affordable houses, grow more and better food etc etc"
16:28
 
and related to those: provide a process and platform for developing informational resources that help people achieve those goals
Chris Watkins
16:28
ICT4D isn't a specific project
Gerry Gleason
16:29
Right, that is a field we are really interested in mapping.  At least I am.
Tom Crowl
16:29
@chris here's interesting site related to sustainability project in India http://agro-biogenics.com/apix.html seems right up your alley...
Chris Watkins
16:29
ICT4D it's a subset/intersection of international development and IT.
Gerry Gleason
16:30
Where is that field organized?  Who are the key players?
Chris Watkins
16:30
related to that, I blog on "lean code" a bit - see http://blogs.appropedia.org/tag/lean-code . It's not quite central to our focus but it falls within the scope, and its relevant to our goals in terms of intelligent, efficient use of resources, and providing something better to use. Just an example of how we support other projects.
Tom Crowl
16:31
problem is in finance, banking in India... need to allow local currencies to escape trap of World banking system and companies like Monsanto!
Chris Watkins
16:31
Gerry: ICT4D? I suspect this could become a separate interview. I'd have to look up some names - not sure if there are key players, but many are working on it.
david pinto
16:31
@tav i mentioned http://www.boxnode.net earlier and was wondering if the format for visualising a map of players/orgs/individuals is doable... easyish?
Chris Watkins
16:32
culturalengineer: thanks. at a glance it looks like industrial ecology in agriculture? (which is excellent)
16:32
 
culturalengineer: incidentally, noting your username, I did my masters project on culture and water management in Indonesia.
Tom Crowl
16:32
Yes, what could be helpful is software to enable local communities to establish their own credit systems and local trading currencies
16:33
 
Chagora, btw, could easily be adapted for that
Gerry Gleason
16:33
@Chis, this is an example of the sort of work we would be interested in collaborating on.  Mapping that field would be of great value to all of us.  Connecting the key players in those networks to this project mapping effort would be a huge win.
Suresh Fernando
16:33
Chris, can you give us a few details on the App team. How many active people working on the project, what their roles are roughly etc.
Chris Watkins
16:33
Gerry: cool
16:34
 
(sorry if I've missed anyone's questions - please repeat if I have).
16:34
 
Suresh: a bit out of date, but... http://www.appropedia.org/Appropedia:About#People_who_make_Appropedia_possible
Matthew Cooperrider
16:34
chris, is there anything you are lacking that you need to achieve your goals?
16:34
 
what additional resources wuld be helpful to you?
Suresh Fernando
16:35
aside from a few million $
Chris Watkins
16:35
or better: http://www.appropedia.org/Appropedia:Board_of_Directors gives some information about us.
16:35
 
Suresh: actually, that would help a lot.
Suresh Fernando
16:35
no, really.... 
Chris Watkins
16:35
Matt: consistent tech help would be incredibly helpful.
Suresh Fernando
16:36
how deep are your relationships with organizations in your database? Am trying to get a sense if this is just a list or something more
Chris Watkins
16:37
help with fundraising would be the next issue. even $10,000 or $20,000 a year would make an enormous difference.
Gerry Gleason
16:37
How is your tech help organized now?
Matthew Cooperrider
16:37
tech help meaning
16:37
 
people to show up and complete programming tasks?
Chris Watkins
16:38
Gerry: sporadically. Lonny does most of it, because someone has to. His skills are better used elsewhere though.
16:38
 
Matt: improving the site. New features we want to add, new skin.
Michael Maranda
16:38
we'll want  to dig deeper on specifics of that sometime .. specific improvements and tech needs etc
Matthew Cooperrider
16:39
right.  let's stay  level just above that for now
Chris Watkins
16:39
Suresh: re orgs: some relationships are very active & deep, esp with academics, using the site with their students.
16:39
 
most are more incidental. I hear of people using the site and finding it very helpful, but often that's just incidental, and we hear by accident.
Gerry Gleason
16:40
I'm seeing a common theme of need for tech resources in the parallel channels.
Chris Watkins
16:40
Plenty of people support us in principle. In practice, they have their own work to do, and may be concerned to keep their own branding or control, re information that they personally have.
Matthew Cooperrider
16:41
hm. idealist.org just launched a tech volunteers initiative
Chris Watkins
16:41
Some orgs have given us permission to use their material, e.g. Practical Action. That's been an enormous boost.
16:41
 
There's a "Geeks for Peace" group in Oz I've been meaning to contact.
16:42
 
idealist, also cool.
16:42
 
there are online volunteer sites, including a UN site.
Matthew Cooperrider
16:43
volunteers and volunteer opportunities need to be matched using a distributed system
16:43
 
too many silos
Gerry Gleason
16:43
The problem is that all these systems introduce frictions and transactions costs.  Part of that is what we want to remedy by connecting projects with related intentions to projects that are interested in what they produce.
16:44
 
++ too many silos
16:44
 
I think we just said the same thing different ways.
Matthew Cooperrider
16:44
yeah
Michael Maranda
16:44
re: initaitives that are intenede to address issues ... seems that many plow ahead not seeing the others doing same or similar things -- OK should help get us beyond that
Chris Watkins
16:44
matt: possibly we need to dive into the silos and find what we can, in the short term? In the medium term, setting up a  distributed system, absolutely.
david pinto
16:45
one thing to note is also the problem of uber-networks
Michael Maranda
16:45
problem?
Chris Watkins
16:45
Michael - a lot of that happens!
Matthew Cooperrider
16:45
chris, a lot of the deeper thinking behind openkollab is meant to address this issue
16:45
 
maybe volunteer silos is a good focus case
Michael Maranda
16:45
Chris, that's my song
Chris Watkins
16:45
we see a lot of people go "hey, let's start a green wiki" without seeing what else is out there. Or seeing, but having a different agenda.
Michael Maranda
16:46
amen
david pinto
16:46
silos have their own problems for sure, but at least a vertical hierarchy is quite efficient at getting things done (at a certain level)
Matthew Cooperrider
16:46
yeah, we hope to resolve that by being the place to look to see what else is out there
Michael Maranda
16:46
david - expand on uber-nets
Chris Watkins
16:46
or "let's start a humanitarian/development/green design wiki" - some subset of what we're doing.
Michael Maranda
16:47
"We're neither alone, nor unique in our efforts. We can no longer conduct ourselves as if we were. This goes for persons, groups, organizations, institutions, and political entities. So we take this point as a design principal, we make it a species asset."
Chris Watkins
16:47
Matt: are there any other such places to look, now?
Matthew Cooperrider
16:47
wiserearth.org
david pinto
16:47
and with networks, we have the problem of new opens popping up all the time, as chris just mentioned, as well as the "scaffolding cost" of supporting so many networks
Tom Crowl
16:47
I believe the Individually-Controlled/Commons Dedicated-Account facilitating scaled-anonymity forms of networking (hi-tech speech and association) is the ultimate distributed network
david pinto
16:48
eg i was speaking to sofia's brother yesterday and they are thinking of creating a site to aggregate various experiential youth workers globally...
Michael Maranda
16:48
votre for me and I'll set you free 
Chris Watkins
16:50
I've had an encouraging email exchange with Bowo from WiserEarth about collaboration on knowledge sharing. (still in early stages). I expect to see him in Jakarta in about 2 weeks.
Michael Maranda
16:51
good to see slow evolution of their API  (not that the current stage is slow, but it was slow in happening at all)
david pinto
16:51
the time/effort required to maintain their own initiative as well
Michael Maranda
16:51
so, does everyone have a practical picture of where OK is now, and what's next?
Chris Watkins
16:52
I'm wondering how it relates to WiserEarth. WE seems like the big web 2.0 solution, and OK seems like the conversational approach (based on my experience of OK being this conversation )
16:53
 
And OK seems to be actively wanting to connect people and see collaboration happen, whereas WiserEarth simply provides the tools (which can also be very powerful)
Michael Maranda
16:54
folks here should track their API dev group.  and influence it towards these aims
Matthew Cooperrider
16:54
behind OK is a plan to build a set of distributed web protocols for improved collaboration
16:54
 
we don't want to build just another database
Chris Watkins
16:54
Matt: excellent - much more powerful and significant than another database.
Matthew Cooperrider
16:55
right.  so, we're trying to bring this meeting back to a focal point.  maybe we can get onthe same page about what that would look like