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On some of these answers, yeah, and we will get, we will just have a combo and you have had the conversation with us. So if at any point you feel like being more targeted will help, because yes, I just want, I don't want to be a place where Michelle saying plus one. I am saying plus one to whatever she said, all the "gotcha, gotcha" whatever. We should also know what we do. Hey, how's it going, everyone? So good to be here with you all on this beautiful Tuesday. I see folks tuning in from Atlanta. Hi Wade Falkner from Idaho, and we've got Michelle in the house, Lionel in the house. Today is going to be a great discussion on storytelling plus AI. Gosh, this is the topic of the day, of the hour, and you know as we know, GPT has taken the world by storm. I mean, did you know that it is the fastest technology to reach 1 million users in five days from launch? And now you've got GPT-4, which is blowing the previous iterations out of the water. It can analyze more than text, can analyze photos that users upload, code in all major programming languages, and you can also pass prestigious graduate-level exams. I mean, whoa, whoa. Okay, I know there's a waiting list for that, and the team and I are like, "All right, let's fire it up and see how this goes." So for us as content creators, marketers, writers, storytellers, you know, there's a point where AI could seem a little bit intimidating, but there's such an opportunity right now to really lean into AI, embrace it. And so that's the conversation. With that, I would love to introduce Michelle Tate, the CMO of MailChimp, and Lionel Maury, the Chief Storytelling Officer at Intuit. Please join me here on stage. Hello, hi everyone. Hi everyone. Hey, where are you both? Oh, where are you? But before we jump into the pool, what we're done both tuning in from? Why don't you want to go first? I am in Mountain View, California. It's been raining for months. It feels like, yeah. And I am not far in Palo Alto, California. And it's been raining. Wow. Okay. Rain along the west coast. I was just in LA and it was raining there too, all along Cali. Well, could you give us a little intro of each of you and what you guys do at Intuit and at MailChimp? And I will start with you, Michelle. I am the chief marketing officer at Intuit MailChimp, and we're on a mission to make sure that all of marketers have all the advanced tools they need to grow their business. I have been at Intuit for about five and a half years and just really stoked to be here. Great. Awesome. I am Lani Onumah. I lead the storytelling and experiences team for Intuit. I have been at Intuit for about 12 years now. Can't believe how fast it's gone. And I lead an amazing team of about 70 creatives who galvanize our employees and our customers around the Intuit story and the Intuit vision to make sure that we all know where we're going. And we're moving with passion and conviction there. Wonderful. Well, we're excited to dive into your rich experiences and wealth of knowledge. But before we jump into the discussion, let us pull up that poll that you all just saw not too long ago. So I would love to get a sentiment and read of the room here. How often do you use Chat GPT per week? 10 times per week, 5 to 9 times, 4 times, 40 times per week, and you can totally be honest and real with us. So go ahead and click on the screen directly and let us know how often you're using. I mean, just out of curiosity, Lionel and Michelle, how often do you find yourselves using to achieve ET? Feel like I am using it over 10 times this morning, so probably a lot more than that. I am just going to be transparent. I am using it right now to answer your questions. All right, well, I am not really. So there we go. There're the results showing up. Okay. So wow, so we have got a good mix of folks, but most of us here are not really using it. So that's helpful for us to know. And then some of us are using it 10 times per week, and some of us are just dabbling into it. So that's a good range of folks that we have here today. Okay? So Anna. All right, I will share the results. We had 25 percent, I believe, leave at 10 times usage, a little less than you know with five to eight times. And then 12, four times with it was annexed 25%, but the most were at zero. So those are the results, and let us jump right in. So, you know, first things first, some of us, to be honest, still see Chad GPT as a bit of a threat to our jobs, right? And we're seeing this technology fiercely take over by ARM yet. We're in a down market, and it's a crazy time in tech. So with all of these layers and factors, how do we get over our egos and really lean into the opportunity that we have here? And Michelle, you were just talking a lot about some of the mindset, the values behind this. What are your thoughts? Yeah, I think it goes back to how you lead as an individual and how you think about where you want to go and how you want to do that in your career. For me, it's about humility and curiosity, and the two of them that are two were charging each other. And if you sort of take a step back and say, what does that mean, humility is its ability to say, I don't know everything. I actually know very little and being open and transparent to yourself and to your teams about that. Also, to my 10-year-old son often. And then curiosity, just this idea of there's you can learn from anything and everywhere all at once. And so when you take that sort of, I don't know everything, but I am willing to learn that sort of tour charges how you look at the world. And if I look at Chad GPT, it's more of like wow, I have this huge awesome tool at my fingertips where I can learn anything at any given point. If I just figure out how. So that's sort of how I think about it. I think about it as my new best friend rather than something that's going to take over my career. Mmm. Love that just to build on that love, love the mindset. You know, when Chad GPT started kind of getting hot and everybody started getting sitting at some of those examples of what he could do. I noticed that a lot of people were answering questions that nobody was asking, and the question was, is this good or bad or is this going to replace me or not? And I think that's actually the wrong way to think about it is too binary. You actually have to lean in and say, what can I do with this instead of trying to kind of lead with your ego? And as creatives, we all have an ego. Let us just be honest, that actually is part of what makes us creatives. We have to put that ego in check and understand that not everything that you do is unique. Not everything that you do is just in here, right? There's a lot of things that you can learn from. There's a lot of inspiration that you can find outside of your brain, and the more you try to answer the question of "is it going to replace me or not?", the more likely it is going to replace you. You actually have to lean in and use that as another tool in your toolbox. That's my thing about this, that's good. Yeah, I love that initial humility, the curiosity, the willingness to learn that each of you are addressing. You know, I am curious with both of you leading these global brands, and by the way, love the Super Bowl commercial with that dancer, senior citizen looking guy. I mean, that was awesome with the Turbo Tax. I believe a commercial in the Super Bowl. You're leading these global brands, so in order to get the work done, you have in-house agencies. And how are you leveraging AI with your teams and experimenting today? I am only going to take this one first. I know you have been sure. You know, I think we have to recognize that we're still early in the process. I would say everything is really an experiment, and we're trying to learn with it. But when things started kind of heating up in December and January with GPT, I met with my leadership team and I said, "Let us actually develop a point of view around how we can use that on our team for two different reasons." One, efficiencies. How do we actually start doing the things that are repeatable and using AI to do that so that we can give time back to the creatives? The reality is, you know, we have 70 people on this team. I can't keep growing the team. As soon as we take on more scope, we have to get to a place where we can actually scale without just humans. So, what are the places where you can find repeatable tasks that are non-value-added tasks and get that efficiency so you can give the team time back? And the second question was, how do you actually use it to fuel creativity? And I think that's the part where it gets really interesting. Interesting because you think about the AI as the thing that's going to do all the things you don't want to do. What if you actually start using it with things that you want to do? How could we actually help you think differently about creativity? And the challenge that I put in front of my team is, we're a team of 70 people. But using this technology, how would we act as a team of 700 people? Again, this is meant to be an unachievable goal, but why not? Why don't we actually lean into this and think about scale in the things that truly add value and where we add value versus the places where you could be down somewhere else. And by somebody else, yeah, and I would just build on that and say, no creator, you know, went into their job saying, I want to do all this work that I hate. And so, and there's a lot of, right? Like, and no creators like, I want 20 different ways to sell this product at the bottom of the funnel. Like, yes, that's, we can make that exciting. But that's really not the core of what we do. Why we do what we do? And so to be able to then sort of use these tools to get out of that very basic sort of give me 20 examples of how to sell this and say, okay, this is what I want to do and why, help me get there faster. And it's not necessarily that it's doing everything for you, right? But to enable an inline always easy and won't steal your life, my own city first draft. Like, that's something that is so much faster with this technology. And how do you get to the piece of work that you don't necessarily want to do faster so that you make time for creativity, for the big ideas, for the big campaigns that you're thinking about? That is so huge to be able to leverage the tool in a way that you, if humans can then focus on the big ideas and the creativity aspect. Tactically, what does that look like with some of your teams today? I mean, just this was it this morning or yesterday. Our team is looking into. How do you drive more thought leadership around marketing and marketing automation? And one of the key things that we did was just to have a very intense conversation with Chat GPT around what are the topics that we should be dabbling in and to be able to see what are the topics that had the most amount of conversation. Now, we don't tell you what the conversation necessarily was or what you necessarily need to write about, but we have 10 topics that we feel very confident we can write about in a provocative/insightful way, right? Where we're not starting off from scratch saying, "Okay, what are the 10 top topics?" and then you get into experimentation really, really quickly off of that. That's interesting too. That's a double-click right there on how you get into the experimentation, but I will let you chime in if you have anything to add to that. Yeah, one of the places where I see a ton of value, you know, our process on my team, as we're scaling creative, it's basically operationalized through what we call the 30-30-60-90 percent. And that's actually mapped to the process that we use, which is design thinking. And so, 30% is where you have explored, 60% is where you define, and 90% is where you refine. And so, you iterate your way to the answer, and the place where I think there's a ton of value, you would think that is actually on the execution side of things. But actually, I think if you pull it in the first thirty percent of your process and use generative AI as almost as a brainstorming buddy, that helps you kind of like think of ideas, use different perspectives and different inputs to kind of see what is the landscape of ideas. It doesn't mean it's going to give you the answer, but how cool is it to actually get the negative space or all these ideas out? So then you can actually focus your thoughts elsewhere or provide officially reframe the question. And so, I think that's a place where you can feel brainstorming to just go for quantity, right? Which is core to brainstorming, go for quantity, vast quantities of ideas and perspectives, and kind of map all the possibilities. And then you can kind of pick the right thing to go after. And I would say if you're looking to also practice specific skills with it, it is really great in going back and forth with you and sort of challenging you. And maybe this is not in the creative process, but I recently did a podcast, and I was questioning, I was thinking about how do I craft for this? And so, I fed Chat GPT. My last three interviews and I did a podcast with James Dangle at the time. I was able to have an hour-long conversation with him that went pretty deep, and I was able to practice asking questions. It's a question of how do you ask, how do you ask it to behave, and how do you ask it to interact with you? To Lionel's point about the buddy, it can be a learning buddy and a brainstorming buddy, right? A buddy on multiple levels of parenting, a buddy as a parenting buddy. Can I get two of those, please? Like, how are you leveraging it as a team today? That's gonna put here old this project, and we creatively decided that we were making a solar s'mores oven, very creative, and he had to explain where energy was at in a bunch of the different processes that went into this oven. And apparently, I don't know about you all, but I really don't know all these answers. So we set him up with a chatbot, and we asked it to explain to a ten-year-old what solar energy was and how ovens work, all this stuff, and it was a good learning experience for both of us. Wow, that is noted for spirit for sure. That's really great, and I love that idea of a buddy, a buddy across your creative process, across whether it be interviewing or parenting. With GPT, there's like a range of ways to leverage it. When we look at the creative process, right? We look at the initial conception of ideas, developing the strategy with the targeting, the messaging, the right audience, getting all that dialed, and then getting all the creative and then going into execution and measurement. Right? At what parts of this process do you see AI really being leveraged well? You want to go for that, and she will like, I am happy to jump into Google. Well, I think actually the answer is all of it, but you just have to be very thoughtful about what are the tools you're using. And I will actually encourage everybody to broaden the aperture. It's not just about chatbots, right? This is actually about a suite of solutions that are about generative AI, and there are so many different applications of it. So I would almost map out your creative process. I would actually map out the use cases, which is what we're doing, right? Right now, start asking yourselves, where are the places where you can gain efficiencies throughout this process? And where are the places where you can actually gain creativity and feel that creativity? My guess is there are actually a lot of solutions that you can use. One of the solutions that we have been using for a long time is Vidyard for customer videos. It does a great job of capturing customer videos, transcribing, and actually editing on the go without even knowing how to edit videos. And those are the places where you can just find time. But I would just ask everybody to almost think from a bigger, holistic perspective. Beyond Chat GPT, there's a whole category of innovations happening that will make you more productive and more creative. From a marketing perspective, we have been using to 53 and our product on Mailchimp for a while on our subject line generator and some of the tools that we offer. But I think about it as a tool that really enables personalization at scale for marketers. So to Lionel's point, you can use it as an expansion tool to think about as a marketer. We have always had to choose who's the target, you're going to go, you're going to target, and how are you going to speak to them? And then you have to focus in on, let's say, three out of five of your fear, great five targets of your whole base because there weren't enough resources to go after all of your targets and to create all of the assets that you would need, all of the touchpoints across the journey. But now you can say, "Watch, I am going to feed either Talk to Beauty or some of the tools that we have in product, right? To say, I want to write this proposition to sell, I don't know, my catering business to vegans, and then I want to write it in a different way that is for vegetarians. And then I want to write it in a different way." And you can really feed into specifics that enable you to get assets and the first drafts and essentially talk to and also the personalized journeys automated in a way that saves you time and a lot of thinking room, right? Which then enables you to do more creative or whatever you want to do as a business owner or as a marketer. That's huge. Are you seeing the creativity increase or the quality of the creativity? Get better because of the AI usage. I mean, I think that if any manager or creative team member were asked, they would say they are happiest when they are actually doing creative work. There's a lot of work that is not super creative, but when they're brainstorming, thinking about big ideas, and closest to the customers, that's when they are disrupting something. I think these tools are enabling them to spend more time on that versus the executional work. What do you think, Lionel? Yeah, I would go to the point of saying it's still too early to evaluate where we are. What I love about what I am seeing is people are actually leaning in and experimenting now. I am not even trying to measure the output, very similar to what I shared earlier. I think it's too early to say if it's good or not, but what's really good is the team is proactively seeking different perspectives and entering different inputs. If you think about where this is going to go, it's all about optionality and iteration. I was listening to an interview on TV, and they were talking about how this shift from the Creator Economy is going to shift to the Curator Economy. I am starting to see that right now, where people are using options, iterating, and following different alleys to come up with their own ideas on top of it. But having options is so crucial to the creative process, and that's what I am seeing. The quality will figure itself out. The process is changing, which hopefully will lead to better quality. We have got some questions coming in here from Celyn. She's asking how do you ask the best questions to AI? So, back to the creative process and inputs into AI. I mean, that takes creativity alone to think about the right type of inputs to get the best output. How do you all ask the best questions and come up with them? Well, I think you just have to ask the best questions to begin with. For me, I am learning a lot by reading about it. So I am trying to figure out how people are, like I am looking at other examples and sort of building my own way of asking. But one of the ways that my team has been able to do this, and then following them, we're doing this daily together just to kind of learn, is just to get more and more granular in the questioning. So you start off maybe with a broader question, but as you get the answer, you start to deep dive into specifics and different angles. And that's how we get the best answers. But I would say we're still learning. We don't necessarily know how to get those best answers. Yeah, I think that's going to be actually the differentiator for those who get value out of it versus not. That's what somebody was referring to as input the engineering. Yes, sir. As talking about this, it's going to copy that, and I think you have to use it differently than you would use Google, right? Like I think Google, typically you write your search words, and then you look at the options that you have. This one, you keep asking, you keep going, you keep kind of adding different inputs in that back and forth with Chad GPT or generative AI gets you to a better outcome. But you can't just put it once, like the answer and walk away from it. And so I think that's the part that's going to become the, all right, keep refining, keep refining, keep refining. And then it takes you to some very interesting places, and that's going to be true for a lot of the mid-journey kind of work, right? Where it becomes more visual. It's going to be true on the video, it's going to be true on a lot of different things. It's how do you input it, but then iterate on that input. And also, just if you think about talking to creatives and asking them a question, right? You brief them a full brief. This is what you start thinking about, and what you put into it as, "Hey, this is all the content I have on this, and this is what I am trying to do." And then you ask your question, you will likely get a better answer. You need to be careful with confidentiality for sure. I love the iterative process with AI that you both are calling out because I didn't even think about that. We're so used to just inputting it and being okay with whatever answer it puts out, but what you're saying is to really use it almost like a human, where you're having a dialogue or this ongoing iteration process with AI. That's really interesting and insightful. We have got another question here that I believe is from Anna in chat. How important do you think disclosure of working with AI in the future will be? And will this bring in more clients or lead to losing some? Yeah, that's interesting. Like how do you see the disclosure of using AI to generate these ads being accepted with customers and clients? I have been thinking about this a lot. I don't have an answer, but I was just this morning I saw the Adobe launch Burger enabling generative AI with IP like recurrence, where you're not using someone else's IP or copyright, and so I think it will matter how you use it. I could see if you're an architect and you're going to use AI to build the building and the software that you're using is utilizing components of other buildings, that's someone else's IP, right? And so, I think it will be important in specific fields but it will be sort of hygiene in some others. The only thing I would add is in a few years, I don't think that question matters. I think nobody knows how often you're using Google to write the paper and I think what's going to happen is, and you're already seeing that with GPT, is that we're going to have to think about what is the value that people add and then some of those things will become commodity. So where it comes from, whether it was generated by AI or not, almost doesn't matter anymore. Now, I think in the world of education, in the world of creativity, in the professional world, we're going to actually have to define. What is the value that we all add? And the commodity just becomes kind of part of the norm. Now we're in that transitional period where it's not clear and everybody's kind of wondering if it's accurate, where is it coming from, all those things. But if you kind of stretch a few years out, it's going to be given that everybody's using generative AI to generate things. But how are you writing your final touch on it? How are you curating the information? That's the thing that will shine bright and that value. That's very interesting to call out because then essentially we'd have to level up our game. If we have already got this foundational baseline of tool and capability, then the ones that will truly differentiate in the market have that extra thought, intention, or quality of message and polish. So I think that's really interesting of how marketing, advertising, creative will potentially evolve in the years to come. Here's another question that is from me. What do we know about AI and ownership? It's very buzzy in marketing. For example, if I get Chat GP to write me a tagline, can I use that in an ad or does Chat GBT own that IP and do I need a license? It's a good question. Do either of you know? Let me get our lawyer here. A really good question. I don't know the answer to that. Yeah, we will have to get legal involved. A me buddy, we're gonna have to work through all those questions as a society, right? Like, if you think about things like Mid-Journey and other apps, they're using other people's art to create new art. What's the ethical side of that? And so, I think those conversations are going to have to kind of happen in the coming years, and I am sure laws and rules and things like that will be put into place. But when that weird foggy place where it's like, is this for real? Is that going to hear? Is it here to stay? And the answer is, I think yes, here to stay. All right. Now, as a society, we have to get it all together and figure out what does it mean for it to stay? I think, Michelle, you called it out early about hygiene. I think figuring out those parameters and keeping things clean and our data, and who owns what, like all that is still to come. Yeah, percent. Yeah, well, I would love to go dive back into some of these other questions that I had with both of you, particularly about the whole idea around the first draft. And both of you have some really good insights on how to get to that because it ain't easy to get to the first draft. So could each of you share how you're leveraging chat, GPT, yourselves, and your teams to get to that point? Yeah, I know you should start. Well, there's a quote from Hemingway that says the first draft of anything is s***. And so I think here the opportunity is to get to that much faster, right? Get to the s***** part, get that stuff out. It doesn't mean that it's a bad thing, but that's part of the creative process. You have to get it out of your head, get to a place where you look at it like, what the hell was I thinking when I wrote this? There's value in that, and I think Chad GPT can actually accelerate that or generate a, I can get you to that first draft. Now, having said that, what we don't want to do is lose the value of thinking and pushing and trying to get to that first draft. So I think we just have to be careful of the blind spot of trying to kind of find the very efficient way to just get to the first draft, how you input, how you iterate on it might be actually the reflection of how you think about it. And through that journey, you will learn a ton when you get to that first draft, and after that, you build on it and you have a jump start. So, you know, I think we can all push ourselves to get it out of our head much faster. Now, yeah, is the differentiation between the Holland and what, and if you can get the what down to like a few bullets and get AI to sort of, you know, make that into a paragraph or whatever you're looking to draft, right? It's really about how you then take that and make it what you want it to be easy. Whether it's an article you're writing or a concept that really matters, but until you align, find the faster you can get it down, the more you can do with it because you can start playing with the house, rock or paint. Just the what? What, and just one more add-on? That is how you define, you start changing because creativity is a team sport. And so it's not just about getting what's out of your head, it's actually getting what's out of your head collectively and all looking at the same thing and then starting to build on it, right? It gives you a starting point to collaborate around and gives you shared language for that. So it's not just you on your own. It's actually your team. How do you bring them along and how do you create movement and progress the thing with leaving things around data, right? We're talking about creativity and concepts and writing, but I would expect that the same will happen very quickly with data, and this is already happening. Yeah, the faster you can get people on the same page as to looking at the same census data, the better the conversation will be had. So by the way, I love the legal conversations that are happening. It's big and scary, but digging into that, I think that is so huge. What each of you are addressing about how we work and how it's going to evolve and really getting to that place of common language, chat GPT powers our capability to get to that common language to get to that data, Michelle. As you're saying, I mean, that's the opportunity that we have with our creative processes. So diving more into storytelling itself and AI, and I know there are a lot of things we touched on in our conversation that we have already had about it, but can AI help us become better storytellers overall? Yes, shouldn't L. Sorry, I interrupted you. Now that I think, you know, what are the ingredients that go into a story, right? Like you need context, unique characters, you need an arc of the story, and you also need a voice and tone, right? And those are all levers that you can actually control in generative AI and chat GPT. And so, if you can start prototyping storytelling and not be stuck on the story arc that you have in your head only, I think you can only make it better, right? And you know, movies are made like that, where they have multiple endings and they pick one finally to figure out what. So how do you start prototyping with stories? The same way that you prototype with a product. I think that's what makes you really good at it. Yeah, and I don't say like, and we were talking about this, I see this tool not only as a storyteller for creative storytelling but also how you tell a story to a team. How you tell us a personal how you provide feedback to an individual, right? It enables different people with different capabilities to sort of align to. Okay, I don't quite know how to provide this really harsh feedback, but I wanted to be provided in a motivating way. I just like to have a slight buddy system, right? Where I am talking to John, Jay Beauty and saying this is roughly what I want to say. It's not come out the way I want it to. This is what I want the individual to feel at the end. Help me through this. And so, I think it's storytelling on multiple levels. We have to think about it as a story arc of who will be or a script or, you know, content creation. But think about it also across leadership, across team building, across the communication in an organization. Really effective. I love that you think beyond storytelling, Michelle. You did mention when we connected earlier about how you're leveraging it for feedback with employees. Yeah. How are you using it with employees? I have to be careful some of them right now, and not all your employees, no, black, right? We're all going through stuff in our personalized. No one knows what's actually going on. And so just having a moment where you can say, this is what I want to say. This is how I am going to say this is roughly what I want to get out of it. What might it look like? And having a chat to Beauty, actually spit back some white. We changed this wording to "hear" or "here's another representation of what you're trying to say" in this manner. Actually, really helped me fine-tune and sharpen what that talk track was, and it was really well-received. And it goes back to if you have the ability and you have a curiosity and you're willing to take the time to just perfect some of those, or I don't know if it's perfect but sharpen some of those angles, it's really helpful. So as a leader, that's good. They also asked what I should do to get my kids to eat dinner, but it didn't work. Hey, that's real, and we need to answer for that one. No, there's no model that can figure that out. No technology can figure that out quite yet. So when we're talking about the talent playing field and the opportunity that AI has empowering the talent and leveling the playing field, each of you have some really good perspectives on this. Could you share your thoughts? Well, I really want to start, sure that to me is actually, you know, I see the power for creativity, innovation, and all that, but that one is actually the closest one to my heart. In terms of what it's going to do, it's really leveling the playing field on multiple levels. First of all, as we're serving small businesses and the underdogs out in the world, it's so cool to see that. Now they have access to technology that only big companies had access to, or they could hire for, right? Like so that part is just fulfilling, but actually seeing it for employees. You know, a very specific example. I have a gentleman on my team who has been dealing with dyslexia forever and is a super creative guy who's always kind of finding the right stories. But when you work in a corporate environment, you have to pay the corporate tax of sending emails, crafting emails, being, you know, going through the operational side of things. And that would kind of get in the way of his work that would actually, you know, just to send an email to a bunch of customers to recruit them, that might take like a full day for him to really craft the right email instead of spending the time talking to those customers. And what I have seen in him, for example, is a completely different speed, a different pace, and how he's doing his work, and the quality is actually getting better. And then the other part that's actually close to my heart is, you know, I am an English as a third language. And I have seen a lot of people in corporate environments not being from the US or speaking English as their first language. And what happens is when you're trying to convey a big idea and this is not your first language, you tend to make it smaller, you tend to package it in a smaller way so that others can understand it. And I think this is actually going to democratize idea sharing, collaboration, and level the playing field for those who didn't have those as strengths necessarily because now you can get it out of the way. The packaging is free. That's commodity. The thinking is the value-add, and now everybody is on the same playing field, which I think is really cool. Yeah, just to add to that, for me, English is a second language, and so I really resonate with what Lionel just shared. And also just the fact that we chat, duty, you know, I am going to love it, would have been find me a synonym for, right? Or is now I can say, trying to say this might help me get there. So, it really resonates, and I would say, for a lot of Israelis, 90 in similar fashion that it's specifically not even Israelis that I think about is released because that's home for me, you know, startups who are going global and don't have English as a first language or whatever language like latam being able to just very quickly get that first draft and sure you can work with localized agencies or whatever that is but your small business you really don't have that capability and you want to translate your website. So you just have someone at your side which is helping you really effectively. And even if it gets you, like, 95% there, it's a lot. It's 95%. Yeah, that's huge. Wow, thank you for sharing that, love the heart and passion behind all that. We have got some questions. And so I am going to pull up this one right here from Rosaline. How can we evaluate the evenness of chat GPS contributions to our team's work? Good question. We could run an experiment. Sorry, that's the marketer. And me wanting to do some A/B testing. We're just going to learn, and we're going to learn this over time. I can see some pieces, some places on my team where currently people are thriving, and we're getting content out really quickly. There, at least the initial idea is to get there, and I can see places where people are just playing with it, and it's not necessarily contributing, but the fact that they're playing with it suggests that, you know, we're going to learn more about it. I don't know that we can fully evaluate it just yet. Yeah, I think the one thing we could look at is, you know, the triangle of my life is speed, excellence, and scale, right? Like those are all the tensions that we are feeling as a central team. You will never have more resources than you need. You will never have more budget. The bar cannot be lowered, and we're moving faster and faster as a company. I would look at those three dimensions and see, are we doing better across the board? And is that feeling it because theoretically it should help us with speed? It should help us with scale, and then we will have to see if the work is getting better as a result of it. And so those are the three criteria that we look at for next year: speed, scale, and excellence. Yeah, quality where excellence? Yeah, got it. Great points. Alright, here's another question from Meghan. Do you find that the sourcing model for chat GBT is truly capable of pushing out-of-the-box thinking, or is it simply replicating what has already been done? Is it right? Yeah. If you're using it to source ideas, I personally think that's not necessarily a solve, but if you're using it as a body to push your ideas, it's a different way. Yeah, I mean, I actually, how do you use that as an asset? The fact that everything has kind of already been done, so use that to actually get to the obvious solutions first, right? So then you define what is out-of-the-box thinking versus trying to expect it from Chad GPT. Oh yeah, that's a judo move on Chad GPT right there. I mean, it kind of goes back to what both of you are saying, how Chad GPT is an enabler. It's going to allow us to really think about and spend quality time on the big ideas and out-of-the-box thinking, if you will. So that's, yeah, it's going to power it, which is great. Okay, next question here we have got, it's from Chris. How long will it take until humans sound like robots? Have you noticed a particular pattern style of response? I was going to try to do a robot impression, but that ain't me. You ain't your little robot hanging arm here, you know. Well, if I mean, it's funny, right? Because the question assumes that we're moving closer to the robots, and the reality is the robots are moving closer to us. And so right now, when you read something from Chad GPT, it's really hard to tell whether or not it was written by a robot or human. So that's the whole point of this, is the line is blurring out and AI is replicating actually a lot of the humanity that we already have, which is the scary part. They also the exciting part, it also suggests that you want a finished product out of touch, really? I find it hard to look at touch with you that way. Yeah. All right, I see some duplication of questions here, but let us pull up this one from Anna. Have you tried crossing languages with Chad GPT, and how did that go? I did once, I said, "Write me a French song about an immigrant feeling lonely away from their home," and he wrote a song, and I was like, "Holy crap, I am about to cry." That was actually pretty powerful, but I was really surprised that the prompt was in English. I asked it to be written in French about something that is fairly emotional and do the now. It was obvious? Yeah, but not really. It was actually pretty deep and pretty accurate. So, the cross-language is starting to be there and that was my use case, but I'm sure you have played with that as well. Michelle, I haven't played with cross-language as much, to be honest. Okay, I will. There you go. Well, you know, we're trying to come to a wrap-up here of this conversation and I would love to get from each of you just like one word of advice or encouragement around a. I think I'm hearing some of the main themes of just get over your ego, be humble, use it. But is there any other advice that you would give us as we're in this time, this season of exploring, figuring things out? It's a really good question. You got your word, Michelle, or I have two words that can go for it. Just a learning mindset, right? Like more important than ever right now. I would say value. And by that, I mean, really take the opportunity to think about what is the value that you're adding and delegate all the other stuff. And I think it takes a lot of self-reflection and self-awareness because I think we look at ourselves as a whole package, but the reality is, what is the value? And find the thing that is the differentiator. And then, you know, empower yourself with AI. Love that. Alright, well thank you so much, Michelle Lionel. This has been such a rich conversation. Thanks for answering all of our questions that we had. And Robotic robots will not take over humans, is what I am walking away with. Yeah. Interviews by viewers and see if we were needed on. You see Terminator. Wow, but there's still a need for us as human beings to be able to leverage the outputs and still come up with the big ideas. So I think that there's a big opportunity, and so we're embracing that. Thank you so much. We will be in touch via LinkedIn, so some of us may be asking you more questions on AI. All right, so tomorrow note that we have got this amazing career fair that Welcome is sponsoring, and we have got over 40 companies that will be hiring showing up at this event. So if you can make it, if you know anyone that's been affected by recent layoffs, feel free to share the link or click on the link below. If you're looking for a gig with any of those companies, show up, you will meet one-on-one with the hiring manager or recruiter. Have a wonderful rest of your day. Stay positive, embrace attitude, and enjoy the week. Talk to you later. Thank you so much. Yeah, and we will just have a combo and you have had the conversation with us. So if at any point you feel like being more targeted will help? Because yes, I just want, I don't want to be a place where Michelle is saying plus 1. I am saying, plus one to whatever she said, all the talk, gotcha, gotcha, whatever. We should also know what we do. Hey, how's it going, everyone? So good to be here with you all on this beautiful Tuesday. I see folks tuning in from Atlanta. Hi Wade, Faulkner from Idaho, and we've got Michelle in the house, Lionel in the house. Today is going to be a great discussion on storytelling plus AI. Gosh, this is the topic of the day, of the hour, and you know, as we know, GPT has taken the world by storm. I mean, did you know that it is the fastest technology to reach 1 million users in five days from launch? And now you've got GPT-4, which is blowing the previous iterations out of the water. It can analyze more than text, can analyze photos that users upload, code in all major programming languages, and you can also pass prestigious graduate-level exams. I mean, whoa, whoa. Okay, I know there's a waiting list for that, and the team and I are like, all right, let's fire it up and see how this goes. So for us as content creators, marketers, writers, storytellers, you know, there's a point where AI could seem a little bit intimidating, but there's such an opportunity right now to really lean into AI, embrace it. And so that's the conversation. With that, I would love to introduce Michelle Tate, the CMO of MailChimp, and Lionel Maury, the Chief Storytelling Officer at Intuit. Please join me here on stage. Hello, hi everyone. Hey, where are you both? Oh, where are you? But before we jump into the pool, where are you dialing in from? Why don't you go first? I am in Mountain View, California. It's been raining for months. It feels like it. And I am not far in Palo Alto, California. And it's been raining. Wow. Okay. Rain along the west coast. I was just in LA and it was raining there too, all along Cali. Well, could you give us a little intro of each of you and what you guys do at Intuit and at MailChimp? And I will start with you, Michelle, sir. I am the chief marketing officer at Intuit MailChimp, and we're on a mission to make sure that all of marketers have all the advanced tools they need to grow their business. I have been at Intuit for about five and a half years and just really stoked to be here. Great. Awesome. I am Lani Onumah. I lead the storytelling and experiences team for Intuit. I have been at Intuit for about 12 years now. Can't believe how fast it's gone. And I lead an amazing team of about 70 creatives who galvanize our employees and our customers around the Intuit story and the Intuit vision to make sure that we all know where we're going. And we're moving with passion and conviction there. Wonderful. Well, we're excited to dive into your rich experiences and wealth of knowledge. But before we jump into the discussion, let us pull up that poll that you all just saw not too long ago. So I would love to get a sentiment and read of the room here, how often do you use Chat GPT per week? 10 times per week. 5 to 9 times a day, 4 times, 40 times per week, and you totally be honest and real with us. So go ahead and click on the screen directly and let us know how often you're using. I mean, just out of curiosity, Lionel and Michelle, how often do you find yourselves using to achieve E.T. feel? Like I am using it over 10 times this morning, so probably a lot more than that. I am just going to be transparent. I am using it right now to answer your questions. All right, well, I am not really. So there we go. There are the results showing up. Okay. So wow, so we have got a good mix of folks, but most of us here are not really using it. So that's helpful for us to know. And then some of us are using it 10 times per week, and some of us are just dabbling into it. So, that's a good range of folks that we have here today. Okay? So Anna. All right, I will share the results. We had 25 percent, I believe, leave at 10 times usage, a little less than you know with five to eight times. And then 12, four times with it was annexed 25% but the most were at zero so those are the results and let us jump right in. So, you know, first things first, some of us to be honest still see Chad GPT as a bit of a threat to our jobs, right? And we're seeing this technology fiercely takeover by AI. Yet, we're in a down market and it's a crazy time in tech. So with all of these layers and factors, how do we get over our egos and really lean into the opportunity that we have here? And Michelle, you were just talking a lot about some of the mindset, the values behind this. What are your thoughts? Yeah, I think it goes back to how you lead as an individual and how you think about where you want to go and how you want to do that in your career. For me, it's about humility and curiosity, and the two of them are charging each other. And if you sort of take a step back and say, what does that mean? Humility is the ability to say, I don't know everything. I actually know very little, and being open and transparent to yourself and to your team about that. Also, to my 10-year-old son often. And then curiosity, just this idea of there's you can learn from anything and everywhere all at once. And so when you take that sort of, I don't know everything, but I am willing to learn, that sort of recharges how you look at the world. And if I look at chapter Beauty and AI, it's more like, wow, I have this huge awesome tool at my fingertips where I can learn anything at any given point. If I just figure out how. So that's sort of how I think about it. I think about it as my new best friend rather than something that's going to take over my career. Mmm. Love that. Just to build on that, love the mindset. You know, when Chad GPT started kind of getting hot and everybody started getting excited at some of those examples of what he could do, I noticed that a lot of people were answering a question that nobody was asking, and the question was, is this good or bad or is this going to replace me or not? And I think that's actually the wrong way to think about it. It's too binary. You actually have to lean in and say, what can I do with this instead of trying to kind of lead with your ego? And as creatives, we all have an ego. Let's just be honest. That actually is part of what makes us creatives. We have to put that ego in check and understand that not everything that you do is unique. Not everything that you do is just in here, right? There's a lot of things that you can learn from. There's a lot of inspiration that you can find outside of your brain. And the more you try to answer the question of, is it going to replace me or not? The more likely it is going to replace you. Like, you actually have to lean in and use that as another tool in your toolbox. That's my thing about this, that's good. Yeah, I love that initial humility. The curiosity, the willingness to learn that each of you are addressing. You know, I am curious with both of you leading these global brands, and by the way, love the Super Bowl commercial with that dancer, senior citizen looking guy. I mean, that was awesome with the Turbo Tax. I believe a commercial in the Super Bowl. You're leading these global brands. So, in order to get the work done, you have in-house agencies. And how are you leveraging AI with your teams and experimenting today? I am only going to take this one first. I know you have been sure. You know, I think we have to recognize that we're still early in the process. I would say everything is really an experiment, and we're trying to learn with it. But when things started kind of heating up in December and January with GPT, I met with my leadership team and I said, "Let us actually develop a point of view around how we can use that on our team for two different reasons." One, efficiencies. How do we actually start doing the things that are repeatable and using AI to do that so that we can give time back to the creatives? The reality is, you know, we have 70 people on this team. I can't keep growing the team as soon as we take on more scope. We have to get to a place where we can actually scale without just humans. So, what are the places where you can find repeatable tasks that are non-value-added tasks and get that efficiency so you can give the team time back? And the second question was, how do you actually use it to fuel creativity? And I think that's the part where it gets really interesting. Interesting because you think about the AI as the thing that's going to do all the things you don't want to do. What if you actually start using it with things that you want to do? How could it actually help you think differently about creativity? And the challenge that I put in front of my team is, we're a team of 70 people. But using this technology, how would we act as a team of 700 people? Again, this is meant to be an unachievable goal, but why not? Why don't we actually lean into this and think about scale in the things that truly add value and where we add value versus the places where you could be down somewhere else. And by somebody else, yeah, and I would just build on that and say, no creative, you know, went into their job saying, I want to do all this work that I hate. And so, and there's a lot of, right? Like, and no creators like, I want 20 different ways to sell this product at the bottom of the funnel. Like, yes, we can make that exciting. But that's really not the core of what we do. Why we do what we do? And so to be able to then sort of use these tools to get out of that very basic sort of give me 20 examples of how to sell this and say, okay, this is what I want to do and why. Help me get there faster. And it's not necessarily that it's doing everything for you, right? But to enable an inline always easy and won't steal your life. My own city first draft. Like, that's something that is so much faster with this technology. And how do you get to the piece of work that you don't necessarily want to do faster so that you make time for creativity for the big ideas for the big campaigns that you're thinking about? That is so huge to be able to leverage the tool in a way that you, if humans can then focus on the big ideas and the creativity aspect. Tactically, what does that look like with some of your teams today? I mean, just this was it this morning or yesterday. Our team is looking into how do you drive more thought leadership around marketing and marketing automation? And one of the key things that we did was just to have a very intense conversation with Chat GPD around what are the topics that we should be dabbling in and to be able to see what are the topics that had the most amount of conversation? You don't tell you what the conversation necessarily was or what you necessarily need to write about. But we have 10 topics that we feel very confident we can write about in a provocative/insightful way, right? Where we're not starting off from scratch saying, "Okay, what are the 10 top topics?" and then you get into experimentation really, really quickly off of that. That's interesting too. That's a double-click right there on how you get into the experimentation, but Line, I will let you chime in if you have anything to add to that. Yeah, one of the places where I see a ton of value, you know, our process on my team, as we're scaling creative, is basically operationalized through what we call the 30-30-60-90 percent. And that's actually mapped to the process that we use, which is design thinking. So, 30% is where you have explored, 60% is where you define, and 90% is where you refine. So, you iterate your way to the answer, and the place where I think there's a ton of value, you would think that is actually on the execution side of things. But actually, I think if you pull it in the first thirty percent of your process and use generative AI as almost a brainstorming buddy, that helps you kind of like think of ideas, use different perspectives and different inputs to kind of see what is the landscape of ideas. It doesn't mean it's going to give you the answer, but how cool is it to actually get the negative space or all these ideas out? So then you can actually focus your thoughts elsewhere or provide officially reframe the question. And so, I think that's a place where you can feel brainstorming to just go for quantity, right? Which is core to brainstorming, go for quantity, vast quantities of ideas and perspectives, and kind of map all the possibilities. And then you can kind of pick the right thing to go after. And I would say if you're looking to also practice specific skills with it, it is really great in going back and forth with you and sort of challenging you. And maybe this is not in the creative process, but I recently did a podcast, and I was thinking about how do I prep for this? And so, I fed Chat GPT my last three interviews and asked it to really fill a podcast with James Dangle at the time. I am and it really was able to do a sort of hour-long conversation with me that went pretty deep and was able to practice. It's a question of how do you ask, how do you ask it to behave, and how do you ask it to interact with you? To Lionel's point about the buddy. Can be a learning buddy and a brainstorming buddy, right? Buddy on multiple levels of parenting, buddy as a parenting buddy, please. Can I get two of those? Please like, how are you leveraging it as a team today? That's gonna put here old This project, and we creatively decided that we were doing. We were making a solar s'mores oven, very creative, and he had to explain where energy was at and a bunch of the different processes that went into this oven. Apparently, I don't know about you all, but I really don't know all these answers. And so we set him up with a chat to be able to explain to a ten-year-old what solar energy was and how ovens work. All this stuff, and it was a good learning experience for both of us. Wow, that is noted for Spirit for sure. That's really great, and I love that idea of a buddy, buddy across, you know, your creative process, whether it be interviewing or parenting with Reveai. There's like a range of ways to leverage it. You know, when we look at the creative process, right? We look at the initial conception of ideas, developing this strategy with the targeting, the messaging, the right audience, you know, getting all that dialed and then getting all the creative and then going into execution and measurement. Right? At what parts of this process do you see AI really being leveraged well? You want to go for that, and she will like, I am happy to jump into Google. Well, I think actually the answer is all of it, but you just have to be very thoughtful about what are the tools you're using. And I will actually encourage everybody to broaden the aperture. It's not just about Chad GPT, right? This is actually about a suite of solutions that are about generative AI, and there are so many different applications of it. So I would almost map out your creative process. I would actually map out the use cases, which is what we're doing right now, and start asking yourselves, where are the places where you can gain efficiencies throughout this process? And where are the places where you can actually gain creativity and feel that creativity? My guess is there are actually a lot of solutions that you can use. One of the solutions that we have been using for a long time is Redact for customer videos, right? Like, it does a great job of capturing customer videos, transcribing, and actually editing on the go without even knowing how to edit videos. And those are the places where you can just find time. But I would just ask everybody to almost think about it from a bigger, holistic perspective beyond chat GPT. There's a whole category of innovations happening that will make you more productive and more creative. So yeah, and from a marketing perspective, we have been using GPT-3 in our product on Mailchimp for a while, on our subject line generator and some of the tools that we offer. But I think about it as a tool that really enables personalization at scale for marketers. So to Lionel's point, you can use it as an expansion tool to think about as a marketer. We have always had to choose who's the target you're going to go, you're going to target, and how are you going to speak to them? And then you have to focus on, let's say, three out of five of your five great targets of your whole base because there weren't enough resources to go after all of your targets and to create all of the assets that you would need, all of the touchpoints across the journey. But now you can say, "Watch, I am going to feed either talk to beauty or some of the tools that we have in product. Right to say, I want to write this proposition to sell, I don't know, my catering business to vegans, and then I want to write it in a different way that is for vegetarians. And then I want to write it in a different way." And you can really feed into specifics that enable you to get assets and the first drafts and essentially talk to and also the personalized journeys automated in a way that saves you time and a lot of thinking room, right? Which then enables you to do more creative or whatever you want to do as a business owner or as a marketer. Oh, that's huge. Yeah, you know, double-clicking on that time, that enables it enables for your teams. Are you seeing the creativity increase? Or the quality of the creativity get better because of the AI usage? I mean, I think that if anybody that's a manager, creative team would tell you that they are happiest when they are actually doing creative, and there's a lot of work that is not super, super creative that when they're brainstorming, when they're thinking about the big ideas when they're in our company, closest to the customers, right? When they are disrupting something, I think that these tools are just enabling them to spend more time on that versus sort of the executional. What do you think, Lionel? Yeah, I would go to the point of saying it's still too early to evaluate where we are. I think what I love about what I am seeing is people are actually leaning in and experimenting now. Actually, I am not even trying to measure the output, very similar to what I shared earlier. I think it's too early to say if it's good or not, but what's really good is the team is proactively seeking different perspectives. They are entering different inputs. And so if you think about where this is going to go, it's all about optionality and iteration. I was listening to an interview on TV, and they were talking about how this shift from the Creator economy is going to shift to the curator economy. And I am starting to see that right where people are using options, iterating, and they're kind of following different alleys and pulling that thread and then coming up with their own ideas on top of it. But that jump start and the idea of having options is so crucial to the creative process, and that's what I am seeing the quality. We will figure it out. The process is changing, which hopefully will lead to better quality. Really interesting points. We have got some questions that are coming in here from Celyn. She's asking how do you ask the best question to a? So back to the creative process and inputs into it. I mean, that takes creativity alone to think about the right type of inputs to get the best output. How do you all ask the best questions and come up with them? Well, I know just asking the best questions to begin with, right? Like, yeah. Oh yeah, for me, I am learning a lot, like, I am reading a lot about it. So I am trying to figure out how people are like, I am looking at other examples and sort of building my own way of asking, but one of the ways that my team has been able to do this and then following them, we're doing this daily together, just to kind of learn is just to get more and more granular in the questioning. So you start off maybe with a broader question, but as you get the answer, you start to deep dive into specifics and different angles. And that's how we get the best answers. But I would say we're still learning. We don't necessarily know how to get those best answers. Yeah, I think that's going to be actually the differentiator for those who get value out of it versus not. That's what somebody was referring to as input engineering. Yes, sir, I was talking about this. It's going to copy that, and I think you have to use it differently than you would use Google, right? Like I think with Google, typically you write your search words and then you look at the options that you have. With this one, you keep asking, you keep going, you keep kind of adding different inputs in that back and forth with Chad GPT or generative AI, gets you to a better outcome. But you can't just put it once, like the answer and walk away from it. And so I think that's the part that's going to become the, "all right, keep refining, keep refining, keep refining." And then it takes you to some very interesting places. And that's going to be true for a lot of the mid-journey kind of work, right? Where it becomes more visual. It's going to be true on the video, it's going to be true on a lot of different things. It's how do you input it, but then iterate on that input. And also, just if you think about talking to creatives and asking them a question, right? You brief them a full brief. This is what you start thinking about, and what you put into it as, "Hey, this is all the content I have on this, and this is what I am trying to do." And then you ask your question, you will likely get a better answer. You need to be careful with confidentiality for sure. I love the iterative process with AI that you both are calling out because I didn't even think about that. We're so used to just inputting it and being okay with whatever answer it puts out. But what you're saying is really use it almost like a human, if I could say, right buddy? Where you're having a dialogue or this ongoing iteration process with AI. That's really interesting and insightful. We have got another question here that I believe, thanks Chris for putting up. I do think it's from Anna in chat. How important do you think it will be to disclose working with AI in the future? And will this bring in more clients or lead to losing some? Yeah, that's interesting. Like how do you see the disclosure of like, "Oh, I used AI to generate these ads," you know? And how do you see it being accepted with customers, clients, so on and so forth? I have been thinking about this a lot. I don't have an answer, but I was just this morning I saw the Adobe launch Burger enabling generative AI with IP like recurrence, right? That you're not using someone else's IP or copyright, and so I think it will matter how you use it. I could see if you're an architect and you're going to use AI to build the building and the software that you're using is utilizing components of other buildings, that's someone else's IP, right? And so, I think it will be important in specific fields but it will be sort of hygiene in some others. Yeah. The only thing I would add is in a few years, I don't think that question matters. I think nobody knows how often you're using Google to write the paper and I think what's going to happen is, and you're already seeing that with GPT, and actually, this student from, I think it was Yale, one of those universities, who had created an app that will tell you if it was generated by GPT. So even chat GPT has released that because I think we're going to get to a place where we're going to have to think about what is the value that people add and then some of those things will become commodity so where it comes from, whether it was generated by AI or not, almost doesn't matter anymore. Now, I think in the world of education, in the world of creativity, in the professional world, we're going to actually have to define what is the value that we all add? And the commodity just becomes kind of part of the norm. Now we're in that transitional period where it's not this and everybody's kind of wondering if it's accurate, where is it coming from, all those things, but if you kind of stretch a few years out, it's going to be given that everybody's using generative AI to generate things, but how are you writing your final touch on it? How are you curating the information? That's the thing that will shine bright and add value. That's very interesting to call out because then it essentially means we have to level up our game. If we already have this foundational baseline of tools and capabilities, then the ones that will truly differentiate in the market have that extra thought, intention, or quality of message and polish. So, I think that's really interesting in terms of how marketing, advertising, and creative will potentially evolve in the years to come. Here's another question from me: What do we know about AI and ownership? It's very buzzy in marketing. For example, if I get Chat GP to write me a tagline, can I use that in an ad, or does Chat GPT own that IP, and do I need a license? It's a good question. Do either of you know? Let me get our lawyer here. A really good question. I don't know the answer to that. Yeah, we will have to get legal involved. Ame buddy, we're gonna have to work through all those questions as a society, right? Like, if you think about things like Mid-Journey and other apps, they're using other people's art to create new art. What's the ethical side of that? And so, I think those conversations are going to have to happen in the coming years, and I am sure laws and rules and things like that will be put into place. But when that weird foggy place where it's like, is this for real? Is that going to hear? Is it here to stay? And the answer is I think yes, here to stay. All right. Now, as a society, we have to get it all together and figure out what it means to stay. I think, Michelle, you called it out early about hygiene. I think figuring out those parameters and keeping things clean and our data, and who owns what, like all that is still to come. Yeah, percent. Well, I would love to go dive back into some of these other questions that I had with both of you, particularly about the whole idea around the first draft. And both of you have some really good insights on how to get to that because it ain't easy to get to the first draft. So could each of you share how you're leveraging Chat GPT, yourselves, and your teams to get to that point? Yeah, I know you should start. Well, there's a quote from Hemingway that says the first draft of anything is s***. And so I think here the opportunity is to get to that much faster, right? Get to the s***** part, get that stuff out. It doesn't mean that it's a bad thing, but that's part of the creative process. You have to get it out of your head, get to a place where you look at it like, "What the hell was I thinking when I wrote this?" There's value in that, and I think Chat GPT can actually accelerate that or generate a, I can get you to that first draft. Now, having said that, what we don't want to do is lose the value of thinking and pushing and trying to get to that first draft. So I think we just have to be careful of the blind spot of trying to kind of find the very efficient way to just get to the first draft. How you input, how you iterate on it might be actually the reflection of how you think about it, and through that journey, you will learn a ton when you get to that first draft, and after that, you build on it and you have a jump start. So, you know, I think we can all push ourselves to get it out of our head much faster. Now, yeah, the differentiation between the "what" and the "if" and if you can get the "what" down to like a few bullets and get AI to sort of make that into a paragraph or whatever you're looking to draft, right? It's really about how you then take that and make it what you want it to be. Whether it's an article you're writing or a concept that really matters, but until you find the faster you can get it down, the more you can do with it because you can start playing with the house, rock or pain. Just the "what." What, and just one more add-on? That is how you define, you start changing, because creativity is a team sport. And so it's not just about getting what's out of your head, it's actually getting what's out of your head collectively and all looking at the same thing and then starting to build on it, right? It gives you a starting point to collaborate around and gives you shared language for that. So it's not just you on your own. It's actually your team, how do you bring them along and how you create movement and progress the thing with leaving things around data, right? We're talking about creativity and concepts and writing, but I would expect that the same will happen very quickly with data and this is already happening. Yeah, the faster you can get people on the same page as to looking at the same census data, the better the conversation will be had. So by the way, I love the legal conversations that's happening. At this big scary for digging into that. I think that is so huge. What each of you are addressing about how we work and how it's going to evolve and really getting to that place of common language, chat GPT powers our capability to get to that common language to get to that data, Michelle. As you're saying, I mean, that's the opportunity that we have with our creative processes. Has so diving more into storytelling itself and AI. And I know there's a lot of things we touched just in our conversation that we have already had about it, but can AI help us become better storytellers overall? Yes, shouldn't L. Sorry, I interrupted you. Now that I think, you know, what are the ingredients that go into a story, right? Like you need context, unique characters, you need an arc of the story, and you also need a voice and tone, right? And those are all levers that you can actually control in generative AI and chat GPT. And so, if you can start prototyping storytelling and not be stuck on the story arc that you have in your head, I think you can only make it better, right? And you know, movies are made like that, where they have multiple endings and they pick one finally to figure out what. So how do you start prototyping with stories? The same way that you prototype with a product. I think that's what makes you really good at it. Yeah, and I don't say like, and we were talking about this, I see this tool not only as a storyteller for creative storytelling but also how you tell a story to a team. How do you tell us a personal how you provide feedback to an individual, right? It enables different people with different capabilities to sort of align to. Okay, I don't quite know how to provide this really harsh feedback, but I want it to be provided in a motivating way. I just like to have a slight buddy system, right? Where I am talking to John, Jay, and saying this is roughly what I want to say. It's not coming out the way I want it to. This is what I want the individual to feel at the end. Help me through this. And so, I think it's storytelling on multiple levels. We have to think about it as a story arc or a script or, you know, content creation. But think about it also across leadership, across team building, across communication in an organization. Really effective. I love that to think beyond storytelling, Michelle. You did mention when we connected earlier about how you're leveraging it for feedback with employees. Yeah. How are you using it with employees? I have to be careful. Some of them are going through stuff right now, and not all your employees are black. Right? We're all going through stuff in our personal lives. No one knows what's actually going on. And so just having a moment where you can say, this is what I want to say. This is how I am going to say it. This is roughly what I want to get out of it. What might it look like? And having a chat with Jay, actually spit back some, "Why don't we change this wording to here?" or "Here's another representation of what you're trying to say in this manner." Actually really helped me fine-tune and sharpen. What that talk track was, and it was really well-received. And I got, it goes back to if you have the ability and you have a curiosity and you're willing to take the time to just perfect some of those, or I don't know if it's perfect, but sharpen some of those angles, it's really helpful. So as a leader, that's good. They also asked what I should do to get my kids to eat dinner, but it didn't work. Hey, that's real, and we need to answer for that one. No, there's no model that can figure that out. No technology can figure that out quite yet. So when we're talking about the talent playing field and the opportunity that AI has empowering the talent and leveling the playing field, each of you has some really good perspectives on this. Could you share your thoughts? Well, I really want to start sure that to me is actually, you know, I see the power for creativity, innovation, and all that, but that one is actually the closest one to my heart. In terms of what it's going to do, it's really leveling the playing field on multiple levels. First of all, as we're serving small businesses and the underdogs out in the world, it's so cool to see that. Now they have access to technology that only big companies had access to, or they could hire for, right? Like so that part is just fulfilling, but actually seeing it for employees. You know, a very specific example. I have a gentleman on my team who has been dealing with dyslexia forever and is a super creative guy who's always kind of finding the right stories. But when you work in a corporate environment, you have to pay the corporate tax of sending emails, crafting emails, being, you know, going through the operational side of things. And that would kind of get in the way of his work that would actually, you know, just to send an email to a bunch of customers to recruit them, that might take like a full day for him to really craft the right email instead of spending the time talking to those customers. And what I have seen in him, for example, is a completely different speed, a different pace, and how he's doing his work, and the quality is actually getting better. And then the other part that's actually close to my heart is, you know, I am an English as a third language speaker. And I have seen a lot of people in corporate environments not being from the US or speaking English as their first language. And what happens is when you're trying to convey a big idea and this is not your first language, you tend to make it smaller, you tend to package it in a smaller way so that others can understand it. And I think this is actually going to democratize, you know, just idea sharing, collaboration, and level the playing field for those who didn't have those as strengths necessarily because now you can get it out of the way. The packaging is free. That's commodity. The thinking is the value-add, and now everybody is on the same playing field, which I think is really cool. Yeah, just to add to that, for me, English is a second language. And so, I really resonate with what Lionel just shared. And also just the fact that we chat duty, you know, I am going to love it, would have been find me a synonym for, right? Or is now I can say, trying to say this might help me get there. So, it really resonates, and I would say, for a lot of Israelis, 90 in similar fashion that it specifically not even Israelis that I think about is released because that's home for me, you know, startups who are going global and don't have English as a first language or whatever language like latam being able to just very quickly get that first draft and sure you can work with localized agencies or whatever that is but your small business you really don't have that capability and you want to translate your website. So you just have someone at your side which is helping you really effectively. And even if it gets you, like, 95% there. It's a lot. It's 95%. Yeah, that's huge. Wow, thank you for sharing that, love the heart and passion behind all that. We have got some questions. And, so I am going to pull up this one right here from Rosaline. How can we evaluate the evenness of chat GPS contributions to our team's work? Good question. We could run an experiment. Sorry, that's the marketer in me wanting to do some A/B testing. We're just going to learn, and we're going to learn this over time. I can see some places on my team where currently people are thriving, and we're getting content out really quickly. There, at least the initial idea is to get there, and I can see places where people are just playing with it, and it's not necessarily contributing, but the fact that they're playing with it suggests that, you know, we're going to learn more about it. I don't know that we can fully evaluate it just yet. Yeah, I think the one thing we could look at is, you know, the triangle of my life is speed, excellence, and scale, right? Like those are all the tensions that we are feeling as a central team. You will never have more resources than you need. You will never have more budget. The bar cannot be lowered, and we're moving faster and faster as a company. I would look at those three dimensions and see, are we doing better across the board? And he's that feeling it because theoretically it should help us with speed. It should help us with scale, and then we will have to see if the work is getting better as a result of it. And so those are the three criteria that we look at for next year: speed, scale, and excellence. Yeah, quality where excellence? Yeah, got it. Great points. Alright, here's another question from Meghan. Do you find that the sourcing model for chat GPT is truly capable of pushing out-of-the-box thinking, or is it simply replicating what has already been done? Is it right? Yeah. If you're using it to source ideas, I personally think that's not necessarily a solve. But if you're using it as a body to push your ideas, it's a different way. Yeah, I mean, I actually, how do you use that as an asset? The fact that everything is kind of already been done, so use that to actually get to the obvious solutions first, right? So then you define what is out-of-the-box thinking versus trying to expect it from chat GPT. Oh yeah, that's a judo move on chat GPT right there. I mean, it kind of goes back to what both of you are saying, how chat GPT is an enabler. It's going to allow us to really think about and spend quality time on the big ideas and out-of-the-box thinking, if you will. So that's, yeah, it's going to power it, which is great. Okay, next question here we have got, it's from Chris. How long will it take until humans sound like robots? Have you noticed a particular pattern/style of response? I was going to try to do a robot impression, but that ain't me. You ain't got your little robot hanging arm here, you know. Well, if I mean, it's funny, right? Because the question assumes that we're moving closer to the robots, and the reality is the robots are moving closer to us. And so right now, when you read something from Chad GPT, it's really hard to tell whether or not it was written by a robot or human. So that's the whole point of this, is the line is blurring out and AI is replicating actually a lot of the humanity that we already have, which is the scary part. But also the exciting part, it also suggests that you want a finished product out of touch, really? I find it hard to look at touch with you that way. Yeah. All right, I see some duplication of questions here, but let us pull up this one from Anna. Have you tried crossing languages with Chad GPT, and how did that go? I did once, I said, "Write me a French song about an immigrant feeling lonely away from their home," and he wrote a song, and I was like, "Holy crap, I am about to cry." That was actually pretty powerful, but I was really surprised that the prompt was in English. I asked it to be written in French about something that is fairly emotional, and it was pretty deep and pretty accurate. So, the cross-language is starting to be there, and that was my use case, but I am sure you have played with that as well. Michelle, I haven't played with crossing languages as much, to be honest. Yeah. Okay, I will. Yeah, there you go. All right. It's on. So good. All right. Well, you know, I would love to, we're trying to come to a wrap-up here of this conversation, and I would love to get from each of you just like one word of advice or encouragement around a. I like I think I am hearing some of the main themes of just get over your ego, be humble, use it. But is there any other advice that you would give us as we're in this time, this season of exploring, figuring things out? It's a really good question. You got your word, Michelle, or I have two words that can go for it. Just a learning mindset, right? Like more important than ever right now. I would say value. And by that, I mean, in this, really take the opportunity to think about what is the value that you're adding and delegate all the other stuff. And I think it takes a lot of self-reflection and self-awareness because I think we look at ourselves as a whole package, but the reality is, what the value is? And find the thing that is the differentiator. And then, you know, empower yourself with AI. Love that. Alright, well, thank you so much, Michelle Lionel. This has been such a rich conversation. Thanks for answering all of our questions that we had. And "Robux robots will not take over humans" is what I am walking away with. Yeah, interviews by viewers and see if we were needed on. You see Terminator. Wow, but there's still a need for us as human beings to be able to leverage the outputs and still come up with the big ideas. So I think that there's a big opportunity, and so we're embracing that. Thank you so much. We will be in touch via LinkedIn, so some of us may be asking you more questions on AI. All right, so tomorrow note that we have got this amazing career fair that Welcome is sponsoring, and we have got over 40 companies that will be hiring showing up at this event. So if you can make it, if you know anyone that's been affected by recent layoffs, feel free to share the link or click on the link below. If you're looking for a gig with any of those companies, show up, you will meet one-on-one with the hiring manager or recruiter. Have a wonderful rest of your day. Stay positive, embrace attitude, and enjoy the week. Talk to you later. Thank you so much. Thank you.