wilkie · October 13, 2012 17:30
diff --git a/reply.txt b/reply.txt
 My reply to http://laurasanders.net/a-primer-on-sexism-in-the-tech-industry-by-an-actual-girl/

 Thank you for writing this article. I do appreciate your comments on the original article, and pointed out some problems I had not seen at first.
 However, just as he is clearly over-generalizing, you may be under-generalizing. The systemic oppression of women in this field is indeed strong
 and undermines female involvement. Let me go through your points.

 1. It's true. The article does not tackle sexism directly. http://rarlindseysmash.com/index.php?n=1313531468 is an article about sexism. Written
 by a woman. Uses facts and citations.

 Does he need to define the words? Unfortunately yes. You tell a white-male-techy that they are using 'privilege' and they'll respond 'I've never
 received special treatment!' and then *facepalm*

 2. Anything we add to the discourse is positive. We should not limit the gender of people willing to discuss this issue.  By the sake of the
 problem, men are prominently in the position to speak about the conditions of the industry (not about actual personal oppression, though) and
 we should allow that conversation to happen. Allies are an extra group of people willing to smack somebody upside the head when they get out
 of line.

 Sociological studies are indeed better than anecdotal evidence. If we let anecdotal evidence be respected, then every white-male-techy can say
 something like "the declining number of women in technology just represents the natural disinterest that women have toward engineering.'
 because they wish to describe the condition using the effect of the condition. That's not science, and we can do better, and we have!

 3. True. He should not apply any statement to all women. Obviously, women are within the tech field. Such generalizations imply 0% involvement.
 What we want to show, and do, is that there are pressures and oppression that serve to push away those who would otherwise want to be in the tech
 world. We are looking to find *why* women are disinterested in technology that isn't an inherent biological difference and upset this use of
 anecdotes that the oppressors use.

 There is a study (behind a paywall :C) that looks at the disinterest question. "Why do women consider a future in computer science to a lesser
 extent than men" by Sapna Cheryan. She's a woman, too. However, there is a TEDx given by her on the topic, it is very good:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYwI-qM20x4

 Here are some examples of sexism from MANY anecdotes (take them with their usual grain of anecdotal salt, but there are sooooo many :C)
 http://groans.tumblr.com/post/7984116421/literaltoddler-microaggressions-guy-at-linux
 http://coldattic.info/shvedsky/pro/blogs/a-foo-walks-into-a-bar/posts/33
 http://www.osnews.com/comments/21803
 http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Incidents

 4. I agree.

 5. I assume I can also use the stereotype threat data used in my response to 3 to show that there is indeed a *general* almost unconscious
 stereotype of a computer science environment that discriminates against one gender over another. I defer to Sapna's comments in the video,
 especially related to the classroom and the interest of women and their perception of their ability based upon the room. Really interesting
 psychological effect that we need to counter.

 6. Of course. If anybody suggests that men are not capable of being raped, they are dismissing many male victims. However, the threat is
 much greater for women based upon reported cases. The evidence in the article is sufficient to suggest that rape is taken lightly in our
 culture, and this is relevant because it may support this already established stereotype threat I've continued to mention.

 It is hard to interpret the statement he made about 'fear of daily threat.' I would expect the interpretation to be about how men, due to
 their position as prominently the perpetrators of rape, worry far far less about being sexually assaulted. As a result, men would be able
 to walk through the park at night and feel fine, but women might stay away. That would be oppression based on gender.

 Overall, I find it very hopeful that there are women in this field that have not experienced the sexism that does exist here. We still have
 some progress to make. I hope to do my best to pursue a better environment for my students so they can create and make art in a safe space.

 Did you see the popular hacker news articles today? Worth a read. Don't miss the comments. I should remind everybody that ycombinator is a
 tech incubator that supports small startups in the tech space.

 (the first was tweeted from the ycombinator twitter account)
 http://www.true-equality.net/archive/2010/07/08/ada-lovelace-was-not-the-first-computer-programmer.aspx?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hnycombinator+%28HN+-+hnycombinator%29
 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4648625
 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4644475 (it's you!)
	My reply to http://laurasanders.net/a-primer-on-sexism-in-the-tech-industry-by-an-actual-girl/

	Thank you for writing this article. I do appreciate your comments on the original article, and pointed out some problems I had not seen at first.
	However, just as he is clearly over-generalizing, you may be under-generalizing. The systemic oppression of women in this field is indeed strong
	and undermines female involvement. Let me go through your points.

	1. It's true. The article does not tackle sexism directly. http://rarlindseysmash.com/index.php?n=1313531468 is an article about sexism. Written
	by a woman. Uses facts and citations.

	Does he need to define the words? Unfortunately yes. You tell a white-male-techy that they are using 'privilege' and they'll respond 'I've never
	received special treatment!' and then facepalm

	2. Anything we add to the discourse is positive. We should not limit the gender of people willing to discuss this issue. By the sake of the
	problem, men are prominently in the position to speak about the conditions of the industry (not about actual personal oppression, though) and
	we should allow that conversation to happen. Allies are an extra group of people willing to smack somebody upside the head when they get out
	of line.

	Sociological studies are indeed better than anecdotal evidence. If we let anecdotal evidence be respected, then every white-male-techy can say
	something like "the declining number of women in technology just represents the natural disinterest that women have toward engineering.'
	because they wish to describe the condition using the effect of the condition. That's not science, and we can do better, and we have!

	3. True. He should not apply any statement to all women. Obviously, women are within the tech field. Such generalizations imply 0% involvement.
	What we want to show, and do, is that there are pressures and oppression that serve to push away those who would otherwise want to be in the tech
	world. We are looking to find why women are disinterested in technology that isn't an inherent biological difference and upset this use of
	anecdotes that the oppressors use.

	There is a study (behind a paywall :C) that looks at the disinterest question. "Why do women consider a future in computer science to a lesser
	extent than men" by Sapna Cheryan. She's a woman, too. However, there is a TEDx given by her on the topic, it is very good:

	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYwI-qM20x4

	Here are some examples of sexism from MANY anecdotes (take them with their usual grain of anecdotal salt, but there are sooooo many :C)
	http://groans.tumblr.com/post/7984116421/literaltoddler-microaggressions-guy-at-linux
	http://coldattic.info/shvedsky/pro/blogs/a-foo-walks-into-a-bar/posts/33
	http://www.osnews.com/comments/21803
	http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Incidents

	4. I agree.

	5. I assume I can also use the stereotype threat data used in my response to 3 to show that there is indeed a general almost unconscious
	stereotype of a computer science environment that discriminates against one gender over another. I defer to Sapna's comments in the video,
	especially related to the classroom and the interest of women and their perception of their ability based upon the room. Really interesting
	psychological effect that we need to counter.

	6. Of course. If anybody suggests that men are not capable of being raped, they are dismissing many male victims. However, the threat is
	much greater for women based upon reported cases. The evidence in the article is sufficient to suggest that rape is taken lightly in our
	culture, and this is relevant because it may support this already established stereotype threat I've continued to mention.

	It is hard to interpret the statement he made about 'fear of daily threat.' I would expect the interpretation to be about how men, due to
	their position as prominently the perpetrators of rape, worry far far less about being sexually assaulted. As a result, men would be able
	to walk through the park at night and feel fine, but women might stay away. That would be oppression based on gender.

	Overall, I find it very hopeful that there are women in this field that have not experienced the sexism that does exist here. We still have
	some progress to make. I hope to do my best to pursue a better environment for my students so they can create and make art in a safe space.

	Did you see the popular hacker news articles today? Worth a read. Don't miss the comments. I should remind everybody that ycombinator is a
	tech incubator that supports small startups in the tech space.

	(the first was tweeted from the ycombinator twitter account)
	http://www.true-equality.net/archive/2010/07/08/ada-lovelace-was-not-the-first-computer-programmer.aspx?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hnycombinator+%28HN+-+hnycombinator%29
	http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4648625
	http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4644475 (it's you!)
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