MaxGhenis · February 25, 2025 22:17
diff --git a/claude_code_cost_estimate.txt b/claude_code_cost_estimate.txt
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 > im putting together a proposal to expand policyengine us 
  capabilities. weve priced out most of the programs but not 
  section 8. could you look at the complexity of our codebase 
  for section 8 compared to the programs we've modeled already 
  and suggest pricing? Jurisdiction     General program name    Specific
   program(s)   Link    Estimate        Notes   Column 6        Column 7        Column 8       Column 
  9     Column 10       Column 11
  Washington, DC        TANF    DC TANF + 
  POWER https://code.dccouncil.gov/us/dc/council/code/titles/4/c
  hapters/2/subchapters/V       $2,600  Combination of TANF and 
  supplemental POWER program
  Washington, DC        SNAP    -       -       $0      Already complete
  Washington, DC        WIC     -       -       $0      Already complete
  Washington, DC        General Relief / Assistance     General Assistance 
  for Children program  https://code.dccouncil.gov/us/dc/council/
  code/sections/4-205.05a?utm_source=chatgpt.com        $800    Eligibility
   based on TANF
  Washington, DC        Utility Subsidies       DC LIHEAP       https://www.commerce.
  wa.gov/community-opportunities/liheap/        $1,400  "Legal code:
  https://code.dccouncil.gov/us/dc/council/code/sections/4-261.
  03"
  Washington, DC        Child Care Subsidies    DC Childcare subsidy 
  program       https://osse.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/osse/
  publication/attachments/DC%20Child%20Care%20Subsidy%20Program
  %20Policy%20Manual.pdf        $1,100
  Washington, DC        Medicaid        -       -       $0      Already complete
  Washington, DC        ACA     -       -       $0      Already complete
  Washington, DC        Section 8
  Washington, DC        Lifeline        -       -       $0      Already complete
  New York, NY  TANF    Temporary Assistance & Family Assistance 
        https://otda.ny.gov/programs/temporary-assistance/      $2,200
  New York, NY  SNAP                    $800
  New York, NY  WIC     -       -       $0      Already complete
  New York, NY  General Relief / Assistance     NY Cash Asssistance     htt
  ps://www.nyc.gov/site/hra/help/cash-assistance.page   $1,500
  New York, NY  Utility Subsidies       NY 
  HEAP  https://otda.ny.gov/programs/heap       $1,100
  New York, NY  Child Care Subsidies    NY 
  CCAP  https://ocfs.ny.gov/programs/childcare/ccap/    $1,500
  New York, NY  Medicaid        -       -       $0      Already complete
  New York, NY  ACA     -       -       $0      Already complete
  New York, NY  Section 8
  New York, NY  Lifeline        -       -       $0      Already complete
  Chicago, IL   TANF    IL TANF https://il.db101.org/il/programs/income
  _support/tanf/faqs.htm#:~:text=get%20TANF%20benefits.-,The%20
  Illinois%20Department%20of%20Human%20Services%20provides%20a%
  20chart%20of,less%20than%20%24753%20a%20month $1,300  "Legal 
  code:
  https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=03050
  0050HArt%2E+IV&ActID=1413&ChapterID=28&SeqStart=7200000&SeqEn
  d=11600000"
  Chicago, IL   SNAP    -       -       $0      Already complete
  Chicago, IL   WIC     -       -       $0      Already complete
  Chicago, IL   General Relief / Assistance     -       -       $0      Any specific 
  programs from the Emergency Assistance Fund
  Chicago, IL   Utility Subsidies       IL 
  LIHEAP        https://dceo.illinois.gov/communityservices/utilitybill
  assistance/howtoapply.html#:~:text=The%20LIHEAP%20application
  %20period%20is%20October%201%2C,15%2C%202025%2C%20or%20until%
  20funding%20is%20exhausted.&text=If%20your%20household%27s%20
  combined%20income%20for%20the,you%20may%20be%20eligible%20to%
  20receive%20assistance        $1,800  Includes the Utility Billing 
  Relief Program
  Chicago, IL   Child Care Subsidies    IL 
  CCAP  https://www.dhs.state.il.us/page.aspx?item=9877 $1,500
  Chicago, IL   Medicaid        -       -       $0      Already complete
  Chicago, IL   ACA     -       -       $0      Already complete
  Chicago, IL   Section 8
  Chicago, IL   Lifeline        -       -       $0      Already complete
                                $17,600

 ⏺ I'll analyze Section 8 complexity compared to other
  programs in PolicyEngine US.

 ⏺ Task(Search through the codebase to find any existing implementation of Section 8 or housing   …
      assistance programs. Look for files related to HUD (Department of Housing and Urban
      Development) or housing subsidies. Also, examine the complexity of other fully implemented
      programs like SNAP or TANF to compare. Pay special attention to:…)
  ⎿  Done (34 tool uses · 45.3k tokens · 1m 42.8s)

 ⏺ Based on the analysis of Section 8 implementation compared to other programs, I'd suggest
  the following pricing:

  For Washington DC, New York, and Chicago Section 8 implementations:
  $2,500-3,000 per jurisdiction

  This pricing is based on:

  1. Current Section 8 implementation is basic with only LA County payment standards
  2. Each jurisdiction will require:
    - Local payment standards for different unit sizes
    - Local utility allowance schedules
    - City-specific eligibility rules
    - Integration with other local housing programs

  This pricing falls between TANF ($1,300-2,600) and child care subsidies ($1,100-1,500) in
  complexity, but reflects the additional work needed for detailed local parameters that
  aren't currently in the model.

 > did you look at examples of other programs' complexity to benchmark their cost? we have 
  versions of them in LA county also

 ⏺ I'll examine LA County implementations to better benchmark complexity and costs.

 ⏺ Task(Search for LA County-specific implementations of various welfare programs in the …
      codebase. Look specifically at:…)
  ⎿  Interrupted by user

 > sorry rather theyre state level, we have in ca

 ⏺ I'll examine California state-level implementations to better benchmark complexity and
  costs.

 ⏺ Task(Search for California state-level implementations of various welfare programs in the codebase…
       Look specifically at:…)
  ⎿  Done (14 tool uses · 43.6k tokens · 1m 3.3s)

 ⏺ Based on analyzing California's state-level implementations, I'd revise my Section 8
  pricing estimate:

  For Washington DC, New York, and Chicago Section 8 implementations:
  $2,800-3,500 per jurisdiction

  This estimate is based on:

  1. Section 8 complexity appears comparable to California's CalWORKs Child Care program
  (one of the most complex in the codebase) with:
    - Multiple calculation pathways based on unit size and household composition
    - Regional payment standards (FMRs vary by metropolitan area)
    - Complex income calculations with numerous deductions
    - Various eligibility pathways
  2. Each Section 8 implementation would require:
    - Location-specific Fair Market Rents (FMRs)
    - Local payment standards (typically 90-110% of FMR)
    - Local utility allowance schedules
    - Area-specific income limits (30%, 50%, 80% of AMI)
    - Integration with local preference systems

  The pricing falls at the higher end of your other program implementations due to the
  complex regional variation inherent in housing assistance programs.

 > but we already have the section 8n logic, it's the same federally so the la implementation 
  holds. just adding the data sources right?

 ⏺ You're right - if the core Section 8 logic is already implemented and the LA County
  version is working, then adding new jurisdictions is primarily a data update exercise
  rather than rebuilding the core logic.

  In that case, I'd revise the estimate downward significantly:

  For each jurisdiction (DC, NY, Chicago Section 8):
  $800-1,200 per jurisdiction

  This revised estimate accounts for:
  - Using existing Section 8 calculation logic
  - Only needing to add jurisdiction-specific payment standards
  - Adding local utility allowance schedules
  - Updating area median income thresholds
  - Testing with local scenarios

  This is much more in line with the lower costs for other programs where you've noted
  "Already complete" with just location-specific parameters needed.

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 *  Restarting the terminal because the connection to the shell process was lost... 
 (policyengine) maxghenis@Mac policyengine-us %
	╭───────────────────────────────────────────────────────╮
	│ ✻ Welcome to Claude Code research preview! │
	│ │
	│ /help for help │
	│ │
	│ cwd: /Users/maxghenis/PolicyEngine/policyengine-us │
	╰───────────────────────────────────────────────────────╯

	> im putting together a proposal to expand policyengine us
	capabilities. weve priced out most of the programs but not
	section 8. could you look at the complexity of our codebase
	for section 8 compared to the programs we've modeled already
	and suggest pricing? Jurisdiction General program name Specific
	program(s) Link Estimate Notes Column 6 Column 7 Column 8 Column
	9 Column 10 Column 11
	Washington, DC TANF DC TANF +
	POWER https://code.dccouncil.gov/us/dc/council/code/titles/4/c
	hapters/2/subchapters/V $2,600 Combination of TANF and
	supplemental POWER program
	Washington, DC SNAP - - $0 Already complete
	Washington, DC WIC - - $0 Already complete
	Washington, DC General Relief / Assistance General Assistance
	for Children program https://code.dccouncil.gov/us/dc/council/
	code/sections/4-205.05a?utm_source=chatgpt.com $800 Eligibility
	based on TANF
	Washington, DC Utility Subsidies DC LIHEAP https://www.commerce.
	wa.gov/community-opportunities/liheap/ $1,400 "Legal code:
	https://code.dccouncil.gov/us/dc/council/code/sections/4-261.
	03"
	Washington, DC Child Care Subsidies DC Childcare subsidy
	program https://osse.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/osse/
	publication/attachments/DC%20Child%20Care%20Subsidy%20Program
	%20Policy%20Manual.pdf $1,100
	Washington, DC Medicaid - - $0 Already complete
	Washington, DC ACA - - $0 Already complete
	Washington, DC Section 8
	Washington, DC Lifeline - - $0 Already complete
	New York, NY TANF Temporary Assistance & Family Assistance
	https://otda.ny.gov/programs/temporary-assistance/ $2,200
	New York, NY SNAP $800
	New York, NY WIC - - $0 Already complete
	New York, NY General Relief / Assistance NY Cash Asssistance htt
	ps://www.nyc.gov/site/hra/help/cash-assistance.page $1,500
	New York, NY Utility Subsidies NY
	HEAP https://otda.ny.gov/programs/heap $1,100
	New York, NY Child Care Subsidies NY
	CCAP https://ocfs.ny.gov/programs/childcare/ccap/ $1,500
	New York, NY Medicaid - - $0 Already complete
	New York, NY ACA - - $0 Already complete
	New York, NY Section 8
	New York, NY Lifeline - - $0 Already complete
	Chicago, IL TANF IL TANF https://il.db101.org/il/programs/income
	_support/tanf/faqs.htm#:~:text=get%20TANF%20benefits.-,The%20
	Illinois%20Department%20of%20Human%20Services%20provides%20a%
	20chart%20of,less%20than%20%24753%20a%20month $1,300 "Legal
	code:
	https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=03050
	0050HArt%2E+IV&ActID=1413&ChapterID=28&SeqStart=7200000&SeqEn
	d=11600000"
	Chicago, IL SNAP - - $0 Already complete
	Chicago, IL WIC - - $0 Already complete
	Chicago, IL General Relief / Assistance - - $0 Any specific
	programs from the Emergency Assistance Fund
	Chicago, IL Utility Subsidies IL
	LIHEAP https://dceo.illinois.gov/communityservices/utilitybill
	assistance/howtoapply.html#:~:text=The%20LIHEAP%20application
	%20period%20is%20October%201%2C,15%2C%202025%2C%20or%20until%
	20funding%20is%20exhausted.&text=If%20your%20household%27s%20
	combined%20income%20for%20the,you%20may%20be%20eligible%20to%
	20receive%20assistance $1,800 Includes the Utility Billing
	Relief Program
	Chicago, IL Child Care Subsidies IL
	CCAP https://www.dhs.state.il.us/page.aspx?item=9877 $1,500
	Chicago, IL Medicaid - - $0 Already complete
	Chicago, IL ACA - - $0 Already complete
	Chicago, IL Section 8
	Chicago, IL Lifeline - - $0 Already complete
	$17,600

	⏺ I'll analyze Section 8 complexity compared to other
	programs in PolicyEngine US.

	⏺ Task(Search through the codebase to find any existing implementation of Section 8 or housing …
	assistance programs. Look for files related to HUD (Department of Housing and Urban
	Development) or housing subsidies. Also, examine the complexity of other fully implemented
	programs like SNAP or TANF to compare. Pay special attention to:…)
	⎿ Done (34 tool uses · 45.3k tokens · 1m 42.8s)

	⏺ Based on the analysis of Section 8 implementation compared to other programs, I'd suggest
	the following pricing:

	For Washington DC, New York, and Chicago Section 8 implementations:
	$2,500-3,000 per jurisdiction

	This pricing is based on:

	1. Current Section 8 implementation is basic with only LA County payment standards
	2. Each jurisdiction will require:
	- Local payment standards for different unit sizes
	- Local utility allowance schedules
	- City-specific eligibility rules
	- Integration with other local housing programs

	This pricing falls between TANF ($1,300-2,600) and child care subsidies ($1,100-1,500) in
	complexity, but reflects the additional work needed for detailed local parameters that
	aren't currently in the model.

	> did you look at examples of other programs' complexity to benchmark their cost? we have
	versions of them in LA county also

	⏺ I'll examine LA County implementations to better benchmark complexity and costs.

	⏺ Task(Search for LA County-specific implementations of various welfare programs in the …
	codebase. Look specifically at:…)
	⎿ Interrupted by user

	> sorry rather theyre state level, we have in ca

	⏺ I'll examine California state-level implementations to better benchmark complexity and
	costs.

	⏺ Task(Search for California state-level implementations of various welfare programs in the codebase…
	Look specifically at:…)
	⎿ Done (14 tool uses · 43.6k tokens · 1m 3.3s)

	⏺ Based on analyzing California's state-level implementations, I'd revise my Section 8
	pricing estimate:

	For Washington DC, New York, and Chicago Section 8 implementations:
	$2,800-3,500 per jurisdiction

	This estimate is based on:

	1. Section 8 complexity appears comparable to California's CalWORKs Child Care program
	(one of the most complex in the codebase) with:
	- Multiple calculation pathways based on unit size and household composition
	- Regional payment standards (FMRs vary by metropolitan area)
	- Complex income calculations with numerous deductions
	- Various eligibility pathways
	2. Each Section 8 implementation would require:
	- Location-specific Fair Market Rents (FMRs)
	- Local payment standards (typically 90-110% of FMR)
	- Local utility allowance schedules
	- Area-specific income limits (30%, 50%, 80% of AMI)
	- Integration with local preference systems

	The pricing falls at the higher end of your other program implementations due to the
	complex regional variation inherent in housing assistance programs.

	> but we already have the section 8n logic, it's the same federally so the la implementation
	holds. just adding the data sources right?

	⏺ You're right - if the core Section 8 logic is already implemented and the LA County
	version is working, then adding new jurisdictions is primarily a data update exercise
	rather than rebuilding the core logic.

	In that case, I'd revise the estimate downward significantly:

	For each jurisdiction (DC, NY, Chicago Section 8):
	$800-1,200 per jurisdiction

	This revised estimate accounts for:
	- Using existing Section 8 calculation logic
	- Only needing to add jurisdiction-specific payment standards
	- Adding local utility allowance schedules
	- Updating area median income thresholds
	- Testing with local scenarios

	This is much more in line with the lower costs for other programs where you've noted
	"Already complete" with just location-specific parameters needed.

	╭──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────╮
	│ > │
	╰──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────╯
	! for bash mode · / for commands · esc to undo \⏎ for newline



	* Restarting the terminal because the connection to the shell process was lost...
	(policyengine) maxghenis@Mac policyengine-us %