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Think twice about Wayland. It breaks everything!

Think twice before abandoning X11. Wayland breaks everything!

tl;dr: Wayland is not "the future", it is merely an incompatible alternative to the established standard with a different set of priorities and goals.

Wayland breaks everything! It is binary incompatible, provides no clear transition path with 1:1 replacements for everything in X11, and is even philosophically incompatible with X11. Hence, if you are interested in existing applications to "just work" without the need for adjustments, then you may be better off avoiding Wayland.

Wayland solves no issues I have but breaks almost everything I need. Even the most basic, most simple things (like xkill) - in this case with no obvious replacement. And usually it stays broken, because the Wayland folks mostly seem to care about Automotive, Gnome, maybe KDE - and alienating everyone else (e.g., people using just an X11 window manager or something like GNUstep) in the process.

Feature comparison

Please do fact-check and suggest corrections/improvements below. Maybe this table should find its home in a Wiki, so that everyone could easily collaborate. I'm just a bit fearful of vandalism... ideas?

✅ Supported ⚠️ Available with limitations ❌ Not available or only available on some systems (requires particular compositors or additional software which may not be present on every system)

Functionality Xorg Wayland
Performance ✅ Best (DistroWatch) ⚠️ Worse (DistroWatch)
Power consumption ? ?
RAM usage ✅ ~150 MB lower (Phoronix) ⚠️ ~150 MB higher (Phoronix)
Nvidia GPUs ✅ Well supported by proprietary Nvidia driver, also older hardware (open source driver Nouveau never worked satisfactorily) ⚠️ Only recent hardware
Multi-monitor ✅ Supported via XRandR, Xinerama (TheServerHost, KDE Blog) ✅ Stable, dynamic hotplug, theoretically better (debatable, comment) multi-monitor support (KDE Blog, CBT Nuggets)
Multi-resolution Multi-screen Support ✅ Can be done (tedu); mixed refresh rates (guiodic, Reddit) ✅ Per-output resolutions and per-output scaling with sharp rendering (CBT Nuggets, EndeavourOS Forum)
Cropping and Scaling ✅ Per monitor with XRandR (xrandr manpage) wp_viewporter, wp_fractional_scale_manager_v1, per-window ("surface") cropping (Wayland Protos, KDE Dev) - but applications can be blurry
Screen Recording / Capture ✅ Supported via X APIs; easy screen & window recording (Xlib Manual, OBS Wiki) ❌ Not natively available—wlr-screencopy and/or ext-image-copy-capture can be used without Portals but may not be present on every system. Otherwise requires Screencast Portal, which may not be present on every system (GNOME Docs, PipeWire Portal FAQ).
Input Devices / Event Routing XInput, XInput2, global intercept (XInput2 Docs) ❌ Input routed only to focused window ("surface"), no global interception (Wayland FAQ, Wayland Security)
Input Injection ✅ Via XTEST, XSendEvent (XTEST Spec) ❌ Not natively available—requires Remote Desktop Portal, which may not be present on every system (libei GH, KDE Input) . Workaround: /dev/uinput should work everywhere.
Global Hotkeys / Key Grabs XGrabKey()/XGrabButton() (Xlib Docs) ❌ Not natively available—requires Global Shortcuts Portal, which may not be present on every system (Portal Docs, KDE)
Window Positioning / Stacking ✅ Clients move/resize windows (Xlib Ref) ❌ Only compositor controls window positioning (Wayland FAQ, KDE Dev), 2 Years Later Wayland Is Still Debating A Basic Feature
Clipboard Access ✅ Full/explicit, ICCCM selections (ICCCM) ❌ Not natively available—requires Clipboard Portal, which may not be present on every system (Clipboard Portal, Wayland FAQ)
Drag and Drop / Copy and Paste ✅ Xdnd, Motif (Xdnd Spec), Motif (Motif DND) ⚠️ wl_data_offer, wl_data_device_manager (Wayland Protos, KDE Drag&Drop) but implementations are flaky, especially when dragging between X11 and Wayland applications
Touch / Gesture Support XInput2 (XInput Multi-Touch) wl_touch, gestures via zwp_pointer_gestures_v1 (Wayland Protos)
Tablet Support XInput2 (libinput Tablet) zwp_tablet_manager_v2 (Wayland Protos)
Remote Display / Network Transparency ✅ X11 protocol, SSH forwarding (OpenBSD FAQ, XForwarding) ❌ Not natively available—requires Remote Desktop Portal, which may not be present on every system (Wayland FAQ)
Screen Configuration XRandR direct (xrandr manpage) ❌ Only compositor can set layout; clients have no access (KDE Dev). Supported by some compositors which may not be present on every system via wlr-output-management and associated tools like wlr-randr.
Global menus ✅ Works ❌ Not natively available—requires qt_extended_surface set_generic_property which may not be present on every system
Window Management Hints (size, position) XSetWMHints, XSetNormalHints (ICCCM) ❌ Position not supported, only size
Window Title / Icon Name XSetWMName, XSetIconName (ICCCM) xdg_toplevel.set_title/set_icon (xdg-shell)
Window State (iconic, withdrawn, etc.) XSetWMState (ICCCM) ❌ Not exposed to clients; handled by compositor (Wayland FAQ)
Window Protocols (WM_DELETE_WINDOW) ✅ ICCCM, WM_DELETE_WINDOW (ICCCM) xdg_toplevel.close (xdg-shell)
Window Class / Instance XSetClassHint (ICCCM) ❌ Not supported (Wayland FAQ)
Window Transience (dialogs, popups) XSetTransientForHint (ICCCM) xdg_toplevel.set_parent (xdg-shell)
Input Focus (active window) XSetInputFocus (Xlib Ref) ❌ Managed by compositor (Wayland FAQ)
Selections ✅ Selections (ICCCM) ❌ Not natively available—requires Clipboard Portal, which may not be present on every system (Clipboard Portal, Wayland FAQ)
Drag and Drop ✅ Motif/Xdnd (Xdnd Spec) ✅ Native protocol (Wayland/Drag&Drop)
Window Grouping XSetWMHints group (ICCCM) ❌ No concept/protocol for grouping (Wayland FAQ)
Input Model / Input Hint ✅ Input model hints (ICCCM) ❌ Not exposed/natively supported (Wayland FAQ)
Window Manager Communication ✅ ICCCM client-to-WM (ICCCM) ❌ No standard protocol (Wayland FAQ)
Colormap / Visual hints ✅ Colormap per ICCCM (ICCCM) ⚠️ Handled by compositor (Wayland FAQ)
Icon Pixmap / Bitmap ✅ ICCCM icon hints (ICCCM) xdg_toplevel.set_icon (xdg-shell)
Urgency Hint XUrgencyHint (ICCCM) ❌ Not standardized; up to compositor (Wayland FAQ)
Window Shade (roll up/down) WM_STATE (mapped/unmapped state) ❌ Not supported
Window Always On Top (z-order) ✅ Applications can request stacking/z-order via WM_HINTS, window group, _NET_WM_STATE_ABOVE (EWMH) ❌ Not supported
Exclusive Display Control / DRM Leasing ⚠️ No protocol, possible with libdrm (libdrm) wp_drm_lease_v1 (Wayland Protos)
Transparency / Compositing ⚠️ With composite extension/compton/picom (wiki.archlinux) ✅ Built-in; always composited (Wayland FAQ)
Color Management ⚠️ Apps/loaders like xiccd (XCM docs) wp-color-manager-v1 (Wayland Protos)
VSync / Tear-free Rendering ⚠️ Inconsistent, needs correct driver/config (AskUbuntu) ✅ Guaranteed by compositor; always tear-free (Wayland FAQ)
Security / App Isolation ⚠️ Via extensions, e.g., Xnamespace extension (The Register) ⚠️ Wayland tries to separate applications from each other. As a result, applications can't do many things ("We're treated like hostile threat actors on our own workstations")
Click into a window to terminate the application xkill ❌ Not natively available—some compositors may have proprietary mechanisms, which may not be present on every system
Click into a window to see its metadata xprop ❌ Not supported
Set and get metadata (properties) on windows to exchange information regarding windows ✅ X Atoms (Docs) ❌ Not supported
One window server used by virtually all desktop environments and distributions ✅ Xorg (and Xlibre) ❌ Every desktop environment comes with a different compositor, which behaves differently, supports different features and has different bugs

Status update

Update 06/2025: X11 is alive and well, despite what Red Hat wants you to believe. https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver revitalizes the Xorg X11 server as a community project under new leadership.

And Red Hat wanted to silence it.


As 2024 is winding down:

For the record, even in the latest Raspberry Pi OS you still can't drag a file from inside a zip file onto the desktop for it to be extracted. So drag-and-drop is still broken for me.

And Qt move() on a window still doesn't work like it does on all other desktop platforms (and the Wayland folks think that is good).

And global menus still don't work (outside of not universally implemented things like qt_extended_surface set_generic_property).

Wayland issues

The Wayland project seems to operate like they were starting a greenfield project, whereas at the same time they try to position Wayland as "the X11 successor", which would clearly require a lot of thought about not breaking, or at least providing a smooth upgrade path for, existing software.

In fact, it is merely an incompatible alternative, and not even one that has (nor wants to have) feature parity (missing features). And unlike X11 (the X Window System), Wayland protocol designers actively avoid the concept of "windows" (making up incomprehensible words like "xdg_toplevel" instead).

DO NOT USE A WAYLAND SESSION! Let Wayland not destroy everything and then have other people fix the damage it caused. Or force more Red Hat/Gnome components (glib, Portals, Pipewire) on everyone!

Please add more examples to the list.

Wayland seems to be made by people who do not care for existing software. They assume everyone is happy to either rewrite everything or to just use Gnome on Linux (rather than, say, twm with ROX Filer on NetBSD).

Edit: When I wrote the above, I didn't really realize what Wayland even was, I just noticed that some distributions (like Fedora) started pushing it onto me and things didn't work properly there. Today I realize that you can't "install Wayland", because unlike Xorg, there is not one "Wayland display server" but actually every desktop envrironment has its own. And maybe "the Wayland folks" don't "only care about Gnome", but then, any fix that is done in Gnome's Wayland implementation isn't automatically going to benefit all users of Wayland-based software, and possibly isn't even the implementation "the Wayland folks" would necessarily recommend.

Edit 12/2023: If something wants to replace X11 for desktop computers (such as professional Unix workstations), then it better support all needed features (and key concepts, like windows) for that use case. That people also have displays on their fridge doesn't matter the least bit in that context of discussion. Let's propose the missing Wayland protocols for full X11 feature parity.

Edit 08/2024: "Does Wayland becoming the defacto standard display server for Linux serve to marginalize BSD?" https://fossforce.com/2024/07/the-unintended-consequences-linuxs-wayland-adoption-will-have-on-bsd/

Wayland is broken by design

  • A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications
  • You cannot run applications as root
  • You cannot do a lot of things that you can do in Xorg by design
  • There is not one /usr/bin/wayland display server application that is desktop environment agnostic and is used by everyone (unlike with Xorg)
  • It offloads a lot of work to each and every window manager. As a result, the same basic features get implemented differently in different window managers, with different behaviors and bugs - so what works on desktop environment A does not necessarily work in desktop environment B (e.g., often you hear that something "works in Wayland", even though it only really works on Gnome and KDE, not in all Wayland implementations). This summarizes it very well: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/issues/233

Apparently the Wayland project doesn't even want to be "X.org 2.0", and doesn't want to provide a commonly used implementation of a compositor that could be used by everyone: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/issues/233. Yet this would imho be required if they want to make it into a worthwile "successor" that would have any chance of ever fixing the many Wayland issues at the core.

Wayland breaks screen recording applications

  • MaartenBaert/ssr#431 ❌ broken since 24 Jan 2016, no resolution ("I guess they use a non-standard GNOME interface for this")
  • https://github.com/mhsabbagh/green-recorder ❌ ("I am no longer interested in working with things like ffmpeg/wayland/GNOME's screencaster or solving the issues related to them or why they don't work")
  • vkohaupt/vokoscreenNG#51 ❌ broken since at least 7 Mar 2020. ("I have now decided that there will be no Wayland support for the time being. Reason, there is no budget for it. Let's see how it looks in a year or two.") - This is the key problem. Wayland breaks everything and then expects others to fix the wreckage it caused on their own expense.
  • obsproject/obs-studio#2471 ❌ broken since at least 7 Mar 2020. ("Wayland is unsupported at this time", "There isn't really something that can just be easily changed. Wayland provides no capture APIs")
  • There is a workaround for OBS Studio that requires a obs-xdg-portal plugin (which is known to be Red Hat/Flatpak-centric, GNOME-centric, "perhaps" works with other desktops)
  • phw/peek#1191 ❌ broken since 14 Jan 2023. Peek, a screen recording tool, has been abandoned by its developerdue to a number of technical challenges, mostly with Gtk and Wayland ("Many of these have to do with how Wayland changed the way applications are being handled")

As of February 2024, screen recording is still broken utterly on Wayland with the vast majority of tools. Proof

Workaround: Find a Wayland compositor that supports the wlr-screencopy-unstable-v1 protocol and use wf-recorder -a. The default compositor in Raspberry Pi OS (Wayfire) does, but the default compositor in Ubuntu doesn't. (That's the worst part of Wayland: Unlike with Xorg, it always depends on the particular Wayand compositor what works and what is broken. Is there even one that supports everything?)

Wayland breaks screen sharing applications

  • jitsi/jitsi-meet#2350 ❌ broken since 3 Jan 2018
  • jitsi/jitsi-meet#6389 ❌ broken since 24 Jan 2016 ("Closing since there is nothing we can do from the Jitsi Meet side.") See? Wayland breaks stuff and leaves application developers helpless and unable to fix the breakage, even if they wanted.

NOTE: As of November 2023, screen sharing in Chromium using Jitsi Meet is still utterly broken, both in Raspberry Pi OS Desktop, and in a KDE Plasma installation, albeit with different behavior. Note that Pipewire, Portals and whatnot are installed, and even with them it does not work.

Wayland breaks automation software

sudo pkg install py37-autokey

This is an X11 application, and as such will not function 100% on 
distributions that default to using Wayland instead of Xorg.

Wayland breaks Gnome-Global-AppMenu (global menus for Gnome)

Wayland broke global menus with KDE platformplugin

Good news: According to this report global menus now work with KDE platformplugin as of 4/2022

Wayland breaks global menus with non-KDE Qt platformplugins

Wayland breaks AppImages that don't ship a special Wayland Qt plugin

  • https://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2018/03/unsetting-qt_qpa_platform-environment-variable-by-default/ ❌ broke AppImages that don't ship a special Wayland Qt plugin. "This affects proprietary applications, FLOSS applications bundled as appimages, FLOSS applications bundled as flatpaks and not distributed by KDE and even the Qt installer itself. In my opinion this is a showstopper for running a Wayland session." However, there is a workaround: "AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode" (see below).

Wayland breaks Redshift

Update 2023: Some Wayland compositors (such as Wayfire) now support wlr_gamma_control_unstable_v1, see https://github.com/WayfireWM/wayfire/wiki/Tutorial#configuring-wayfire and sharpbracket/redshift#663. Does it work in all Wayland compositors though?

Wayland breaks global hotkeys

Wayland does not work for Xfce?

See below.

Wayland does not work properly on NVidia hardware?

Apparently Wayland relies on nouveau drivers for NVidia hardware. The nouveau driver has been giving unsatisfactory performance since its inception. Even clicking on the application starter icon in Gnome results in a stuttery animation. Only the proprietary NVidia driver results in full performance.

See below.

Update 2024: The situation might slowly be improving. It remains to be seen whether this will work well also for all existing old Nvidia hardware (that works well in Xorg).

Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware

Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root

  • https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1274451 ❌ broken since 22 Oct 2015 ("No this will only fix sudo for X11 applications. Running GUI code as root is still a bad idea." I absolutely detest it when software tries to prevent me from doing what some developer thinks is "a bad idea" but did not consider my use case, e.g., running truss for debugging on FreeBSD needs to run the application as root. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1323302 suggests it is not possible: "These sorts of security considerations are very much the way that "the Linux desktop" is going these days".)

Suggested solution

Wayland is biased toward Linux and breaks BSD

  • https://blog.netbsd.org/tnf/entry/wayland_on_netbsd_trials_and ❌ broken since 28 Sep 2020 ("Wayland is written with the assumption of Linux to the extent that every client application tends to #include <linux/input.h> because Wayland's designers didn't see the need to define a OS-neutral way to get mouse button IDs. (...) In general, Wayland is moving away from the modularity, portability, and standardization of the X server. (...) I've decided to take a break from this, since it's a fairly huge undertaking and uphill battle. Right now, X11 combined with a compositor like picom or xcompmgr is the more mature option."

Wayland complicates server-side window decorations

  • https://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2018/01/server-side-decorations-and-wayland/ ❌ FUD since at least 27 January 2018 ("I heard that GNOME is currently trying to lobby for all applications implementing client-side decorations. One of the arguments seems to be that CSD is a must on Wayland. " ... "I’m burnt from it and are not interested in it any more.") Server-side window decorations are what make the title bar and buttons of all windows on a system consistent. They are a must have_ for a consistent system, so that applications written e.g., Gtk will not look entirely alien on e.g., a Qt based desktop, and to enforce that developers cannot place random controls into window titles where they do not belong. Client-side decorations, on the other hand, are destroying uniformity and consistency, put additional burden on application and toolkit developers, and allow e.g., GNOME developers to put random controls (that do not belong there) into window titles (like buttons), hence making it more difficult to achieve a uniform look and feel for all applications regardless of the toolkit being used.

Red Hat employee Matthias Clasen ("I work at the Red Hat Desktop team... I am actually a manager there... the people who do the actual work work for me") expicitly stated "Client-side everything" as a principle, even though the protocol doesn't enforce it: "Fonts, Rendering, Nested Windows, Decorations. "It also gives the design more freedom to use the titlebar space, which is something our designers appreciate" (sic). Source

Wayland breaks windows rasing/activating themselves

Wayland breaks RescueTime

Wayland breaks window managers

Apparently Wayland (at least as implemented in KWin) does not respect EWMH protocols, and breaks other command line tools like wmctrl, xrandr, xprop, etc. Please see the discussion below for details.

Wayland requires JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM,... to reimplement Xorg-like functionality

  • Screen recording and casting
  • Querying of the mouse position, keyboard LED state, active window position or name, moving windows (xdotool, wmctrl)
  • Global shortcuts
  • System tray
  • Input Method support/editor (IME)
  • Graphical settings management (i.e. tools like xranrd)
  • Fast user switching/multiple graphical sessions
  • Session configuration including but not limited to 1) input devices 2) monitors configuration including refresh rate / resolution / scaling / rotation and power saving 3) global shortcuts
  • HDR/deep color support
  • VRR (variable refresh rate)
  • Disabling input devices (xinput alternative)

As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. You do not expect JWM, TWM, XDM or even IceWM developers to implement all the featured outlined in ^1.

Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol

  • https://git.521000.bestelectron/electron#33226 ("skipTaskbar has no effect on Wayland. Currently Electron uses _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR to tell the WM to hide an app from the taskbar, and this works fine on X11 but there's no equivalent mechanism in Wayland." Workarounds are only available for some desktops including GNOME and KDE Plasma.) ❌ broken since March 10, 2022

Wayland breaks xclip

xclip is a command line utility that is designed to run on any system with an X11 implementation. It provides an interface to X selections ("the clipboard"). Apparently Wayland isn't compatible to the X11 clipboard either.

This is another example that the Wayland requires everyone to change components and take on additional work just because Wayland is incompatible to what we had working for all those years.

Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS

Wayland breaks auto-type in password managers

Wayland breaks X11 atoms

X11 atoms can be used to store information on windows. For example, a file manager might store the path that the window represents in an X11 atom, so that it (and other applications) can know for which paths there are open file manager windows. Wayland is not compatible to X11 atoms, resulting in all software that relies on them to be broken until specifically ported to Wayland (which, in the case of legacy software, may well be never).

Possible workaround (to be verified): Use the (Qt proprietary?) Extended Surface Wayland protocol casually mentioned in https://blog.broulik.de/2016/10/global-menus-returning/ "which allows you to set (and read?) arbitrary properties on a window". Is it the set_generic_property from https://github.com/qt/qtwayland/blob/dev/src/extensions/surface-extension.xml?

Wayland breaks games

Games are developed for X11. And if you run a game on Wayland, performance is subpar due to things like forced vsync. Only recently, some Wayland implementations (like KDE KWin) let you disable that.

Wayland breaks xdotool

(Details to be added; apparently no 1:1 drop-in replacement available?)

Wayland breaks xkill

xkill (which I use on a regular basis) does not work with Wayland applications.

What is the equivalent for Wayland applications?

Wayland breaks screensavers

Is it true that Wayland also breaks screensavers? https://www.jwz.org/blog/2023/09/wayland-and-screen-savers/

Wayland breaks setting the window position

Other platforms (Windows, Mac, other destop environments) can set the window position on the screen, so all cross-platform toolkits and applications expect to do the same on Wayland, but Wayland can't (doesn't want to) do it.

  • PCSX2/pcsx2#10179 PCX2 (Playstation 2 Emulator) ❌ broken since 2023-10-25 ("Disables Wayland, it's super broken/buggy in basically every scenario. KDE isn't too buggy, GNOME is a complete disaster.")

  • Wayland might allow the compositor (not: the application) to set window positions, but that means that as an application author, I can't do anything but wait for KDE to implement https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15329 - and even then, it will only work under KDE, not Gnome or elsewhere. Big step backward compared to X11!

Wayland breaks color mangement

Apparently color management as of 2023 (well over a decade of Wayland development) is still in the early "thinking" stage, all the while Wayland is already being pushed on people as if it was a "X11 successor".

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pq/color-and-hdr/-/blob/main/doc/color-management-model.md

Wayland breaks DRM leasing

According to Valve, "DRM leasing is the process which allows SteamVR to take control of your VR headset's display in order to present low-latency VR content".

Wayland breaks In-home Streaming

Wayland breaks NetWM

Extended Window Manager Hints, a.k.a. NetWM, is an X Window System standard for the communication between window managers and applications

Wayland breaks window icons

Update 6/2024: Looks like this will get unbroken thanks to xdg_toplevel_icon_manager_v1, so that QWindow::setIcon will work again. If, and that's a big if, all compositors will support it. At least KDE is on it.

Wayland breaks drag and drop

Wayland breaks ./windowmanager --replace

  • Many window managers have a --replace argument, but Wayland compositors break this convention.

Wayland breaks Xpra

Xpra is an open-source multi-platform persistent remote display server and client for forwarding applications and desktop screens.

  • Under Xpra a context menu cannot be used: it opens and closes automatically before you can even move the mouse on it. "It's not just GDK, it's the Wayland itself. They decided to break existing applications and expect them to change how they work." (Xpra-org/xpra#4246) ❌ broken since 2024-06-01

Wayland breaks multi desktop docks

  • "Unfortunately Wayland is not designed to support multi desktop dock projects. This is why each DE using Wayland is building their own custom docks. Plus there is a lot of complexity to support Wayland based apps and also merge that data with apps running in Xwayland. A dock isn't useful unless it knows about every window and app running on the system." zquestz/plank-reloaded#70 ❌ broken since 2025-06-10

Xwayland breaks window resizing

Workarounds

  • Users: Refuse to use Wayland sessions. Uninstall desktop environments/Linux distributions that only ship Wayland sessions. Avoid Wayland-only applications (such as PreSonus Studio One) (potential workaround: run in https://github.com/cage-kiosk/cage)
  • Application developers: Enforce running applications on X11/XWayland (like LibrePCB does as of 11/2023)

Examples of Wayland being forced on users

This is exactly the kind of behavior this gist seeks to prevent.

Summary what is wrong with Wayland, by one of its contributors

image

Source: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/issues/179#note_2965661

History

  • 2008: Wayland was started by krh (while at Red Hat)
  • End of 2012: Wayland 1.0
  • Early 2013: GNOME begins Wayland porting

Source: "Where's Wayland?" by Matthias Clasen - Flock 2014

A decade later... Red Hat wants to force Wayland upon everyone, removing support for Xorg

What now?

Following the professional application KiCad's advice:

Recommendations for Users

For Professional Use

If you use KiCad professionally or require a reliable, full-featured experience, we strongly recommend:

Use X11-based desktop environments such as:

XFCE with X11 KDE Plasma with X11 MATE

Traditional desktop environments that maintain X11 support

Install X11-compatible display managers like LightDM or KDM instead of GDM if your distribution defaults to Wayland-only

Choose distributions that maintain X11 support - some distributions are moving to Wayland-only configurations that may not meet your needs

Source: https://www.kicad.org/blog/2025/06/KiCad-and-Wayland-Support/#

Similarly, for Krite: https://www.davidrevoy.com/article1030/debian-12-kde-plasma-2024-install-guide#d-krita-as-appimage

References

@guiodic
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guiodic commented Aug 8, 2025

Wayland is not even in the same category as Xorg. Xorg is a display server, Wayland is not.

Any Wayland compositor is also a display server, as the Wayland architecture is client/server like X11. This is exactly how a Wayland compositor is described on its official website, as a display server:

In wayland the compositor is the display server. (1)

Furthermore, the first line of the official description on the Wayland website says:

Wayland is a replacement for the X11 window system protocol and architecture (2)

You have no idea what you're talking about.

(1) https://wayland.freedesktop.org/architecture.html
(2) https://wayland.freedesktop.org/

@felipec
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felipec commented Aug 8, 2025

@guiodic a Wayland compositor doesn't just act as a display server, it's also a window manager. I cannot run a window manager on top of Hyprland, can I?

Your statement makes as much sense as saying a spork is a fork.

Wayland is a replacement for the X11 window system protocol and architecture (2)

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Do you actually believe everything you read on the Internet? Wow.

Just because a document says something that doesn't mean it's true. The developers can completely ignore that document, and that's precisely what they have done.

@richRemer
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The core Linux community in a nutshell, folks.

Open enough to accept trolls as a reality and not ban everyone who disagrees?

@guiodic
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guiodic commented Aug 8, 2025

a Wayland compositor doesn't just act as a display server, it's also a window manager.

This implies that a Wayland compositor is a display server.

Do you actually believe everything you read on the Internet? Wow
The developers can completely ignore that document,

It is the official Wayland website, written by the Wayland developers.

You're just an idiot.

@JupiterSky11
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JupiterSky11 commented Aug 8, 2025

One thing I have noticed about this post is that it claims "Wayland breaks Y", and then lists things that only exist in an Xorg environment. Like, of course it does that? It's not Xorg, why would it work with Xorg tools?

Some things are actually broken, and this can be a massive issue. Like, for example, global shortcuts. Although Wayland its self provides a solution to this, no implementation of Wayland actually uses it for some reason.
... but most of the things that are "broken" are only broken if you want Wayland to work with Xorg tools, which it will not and should not because it is very much its own protocol with its own intentions.

Wayland fixes more things for me than it breaks. I have an NVIDIA card, and it works better on Wayland now. I forgot screen tearing is even an issue. Frame timing issues are a distant memory. Yes, not all software fully supports a Wayland environment. Your workflow may not be fully supported in a Wayland environment. Is that really broken, though?
Those things were built with Xorg in mind. Software written for Windows with Windows APIs will work on Windows, but it won't work on Linux. Binaries compiled for ARM won't work on x86. Does that mean they're broken? No, they just weren't built for the environment.

Like, if you're mad about IBM doing stinky corpo BS, then be mad about that. I am also mad about that. I just do not see the problem with developers choosing to support Wayland, which has active development, and not maintaining the Xorg side, which is relatively inactive and has an unchanging interface.

@felipec
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felipec commented Aug 8, 2025

This implies that a Wayland compositor is a display server.

In exactly the same way a spork is a fork.

It is the official Wayland website, written by the Wayland developers.

So? Do you believe Wayland developers are incapable of writing something that isn't true?

@JupiterSky11
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The core Linux community in a nutshell, folks.

Open enough to accept trolls as a reality and not ban everyone who disagrees?

Mostly :P
As long as you aren't making noise in the wrong places, no one really cares... so yeah, freedom baby!

@guiodic
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guiodic commented Aug 8, 2025

This implies that a Wayland compositor is a display server.

In exactly the same way a spork is a fork.

So what?

So? Do you believe Wayland developers are incapable of writing something that isn't true?

Their intention is to replace X11. Whether they succeed or fail is another matter.

@guiodic
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guiodic commented Aug 8, 2025

One thing I have noticed about this post is that it claims "Wayland breaks Y", and then lists things that only exist in an Xorg environment. Like, of course it does that? It's not Xorg, why would it work with Xorg tools?

The point is not that certain tools only exist on X, but that they have no replacements on Wayland.

Although Wayland its self provides a solution to [global shortcuts], no implementation of Wayland actually uses it for some reason. ...

Wayland itself does not provide any solution for global shortcuts. This is provided by another API, portals, with which the compositor must then interact. Obviously, everyone does this in their own way, hence the great confusion.

but most of the things that are "broken" are only broken if you want Wayland to work with Xorg tools, which it will not and should not because it is very much its own protocol with its own intentions.

As I said, I don't want Wayland to work with xorg tools. I want Wayland to have tools that do the same things. Not just the same things as X11, but the same things as any other window system.

Wayland fixes more things for me than it breaks. I have an NVIDIA card, and it works better on Wayland now.

Just scroll through the forums and Reddit to realise that you have obviously been extremely lucky, because they are full of problems concerning Wayland and Nvidia.

I forgot screen tearing is even an issue. Frame timing issues are a distant memory.

The last time I saw tearing on X11 was in 2010. Or maybe even earlier, but I want to be conservative.

Your workflow may not be fully supported in a Wayland environment. Is that really broken, though? Those things were built with Xorg in mind.

No, they are written with the functions that any window environment has been providing for decades in mind.

Software written for Windows with Windows APIs will work on Windows, but it won't work on Linux.

Not necessarily. Cross-platform apps are generally written with toolkits that work on various platforms. Here comes the problem: the same app works the same way on Windows, Mac, and X11, but not on Wayland. This is the case, for example, with KiCad, as explained in the famous post by its developers.

@felipec
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felipec commented Aug 8, 2025

So what?

So most rational people do not say a spork is a fork.

Their intention is to replace X11.

No it isn't. They have no intention of doing what X11 does. None.

@affhp
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affhp commented Aug 8, 2025

Wayland fixes more things for me than it breaks.

Lucky you. I bet you do not use some professional software like KiCAD.

I have an NVIDIA card, and it works better on Wayland now.

What does "works better" mean here?

I forgot screen tearing is even an issue.

X / Wayland myths: No.1 - tearing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfgtvXkUHSM

@JupiterSky11
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JupiterSky11 commented Aug 8, 2025

Just scroll through the forums and Reddit to realise that you have obviously been extremely lucky, because they are full of problems concerning Wayland and Nvidia.

This is true. It's not great for most people, especially on older cards. I'm on a 3080 founders card, so the baseline and probably Nvidia's target when building said drivers. My point wasn't that Nvidia was better in general, my point was more that the balance is shifting in terms of compatibility and functionality.

The last time I saw tearing on X11 was in 2010. Or maybe even earlier, but I want to be conservative.

I've never not had screen tearing on X11. Maybe this is an Nvidia issue as well? No idea.

Okay, onto the bigger point.

The point is not that certain tools only exist on X, but that they have no replacements on Wayland.

As I said, I don't want Wayland to work with xorg tools. I want Wayland to have tools that do the same things. Not just the same things as X11, but the same things as any other window system.

No, they are written with the functions that any window environment has been providing for decades in mind.

Not necessarily. Cross-platform apps are generally written with toolkits that work on various platforms. Here comes the problem: the same app works the same way on Windows, Mac, and X11, but not on Wayland. This is the case, for example, with KiCad, as explained in the famous post by its developers.

Wayland is a fundamentally different approach to window management from most things we've had before. One that I think makes more sense, but also one that breaks prior conventions (very clearly). I gladly invite innovation and new developments in technology, and I feel that Wayland is a step in the right direction.

One small issue with that...
Wayland isn't done.

For many people who have used Linux for a long time, Wayland is not ready. There are certain equivalencies that it lacks, specifically those that are not by design. This is an issue.
For developers, Wayland is not entirely ready. As in, it's not complete. Wayland's development cycle has been... problematic? This is an issue.

Of course, all that said, why are developers pushing Wayland so hard? We know why users are moving to Wayland, that's where the development's at. But why is it focused there?
That one's the hard question to answer, mostly because there's not one single reason. It's the new shiny, it's almost ready and developers want to be prepared for it, it best fits the WM's goals, it's growing and people follow the growth... lots of reasons.

My point is that Wayland does not break everything. It's a new ecosystem, it's a new perspective, and being different in these ways doesn't break the old conventions. Developers, on the other hand, definitely do break things.
We're seeing a lot of support for Xorg ending, which I think is a mistake, and also exposes a flaw with FOSS. People work on what they want to work on. Changing your WM to an entirely different philosophy is going to break things. Changing people's environments breaks the way people use those environments, and that is very much a problem.

Supporting Wayland is not premature, but enforcing it definitely is. Wayland is not the problem, breaking your user's workflows is.

@JupiterSky11
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I have an NVIDIA card, and it works better on Wayland now.

What does "works better" mean here?

"Works better" as in:

  • No screen tearing
  • Multi-monitor VRR
  • Plugging in new displays just works
  • No more crashing, black screens, or "it just won't show anything"
  • Performance

@guiodic
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guiodic commented Aug 8, 2025

So what?

So most rational people do not say a spork is a fork.

Their intention is to replace X11.

No it isn't. They have no intention of doing what X11 does. None.

I think you're stupid. There's no other explanation.

@guiodic
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guiodic commented Aug 8, 2025

The last time I saw tearing on X11 was in 2010. Or maybe even earlier, but I want to be conservative.

I've never not had screen tearing on X11. Maybe this is an Nvidia issue as well? No idea.

Yes, I had an Nvidia card at the time. However, fiddling around with the settings a little solved the problem. The problem didn't occur with windows in general, only with videos.

Wayland is a fundamentally different approach to window management from most things we've had before.

Yes, the approach is that windows do not exist. Wayland was not designed to manage them.

One small issue with that... Wayland isn't done.

That's not true. After 17 years, even a novice would have done something that works.

For many people who have used Linux for a long time, Wayland is not ready. There are certain equivalencies that it lacks, specifically those that are not by design.

What is missing is missing by choice. It is not possible to conceive of a window system without windows.

For developers, Wayland is not entirely ready. As in, it's not complete. Wayland's development cycle has been... problematic? This is an issue.

Again, no. The problem lies at the beginning. Wayland is finished. It only seems like it's not finished because its developers don't have a system in mind that works on the desktop.

@JRRandall
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Their intention is to replace X11. Whether they succeed or fail is another matter.

They will fail here because they’ve stated their intention to not replicate all the features of X11. If you don’t achieve feature parity with what you’re trying to replace, then you will never replace it.

@guiodic
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guiodic commented Aug 8, 2025

  • No screen tearing

Same as X11

  • Multi-monitor VRR

Same as X11

  • Plugging in new displays just works

We'll talk about it again when a buggy monitor doesn't return the right modelines via EDID.
With Xorg, it's always possible to work around it specifying them by hand. On Wayland, you have to go through a very complicated procedure that involves creating a customised EDID using software that only exists on Windows and then loading them into the kernel.
However, I constantly disconnect and reconnect monitors on Xorg without any problems, even though they are different in terms of connector type, size and resolution.

  • No more crashing, black screens, or "it just won't show anything"

hahhahaha, when the compositor crashes, it crashes your entire session. What are we talking about? All it takes is a third-party plugin in Gnome-Shell to crash the entire graphics system.

  • Performance

False: https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/wayland-fedora-gnome-kde-neon-amd-graphics-benchmark.html

@guiodic
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guiodic commented Aug 8, 2025

Their intention is to replace X11. Whether they succeed or fail is another matter.

They will fail here because they’ve stated their intention to not replicate all the features of X11. If you don’t achieve feature parity with what you’re trying to replace, then you will never replace it.

This is because their intention is to replace the X Window System with a system that has no windows.

@JupiterSky11
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Yes, I had an Nvidia card at the time. However, fiddling around with the settings a little solved the problem. The problem didn't occur with windows in general, only with videos.

I am a fiddler, I like fiddling with things... I am on NixOS, you need to like tinkering if you want to survive NixOS.
... but not everyone does. And we shouldn't have to just for a smooth experience with graphics.

Yes, the approach is that windows do not exist. Wayland was not designed to manage them.

Correct!

That's not true. After 17 years, even a novice would have done something that works.

Hey, I don't make the rules. Specs be spec'in'

What is missing is missing by choice. It is not possible to conceive of a window system without windows.

To some degree yes, as I mentioned. In other cases... not so much. There is a desire for certain features, and there is a way to go about implementing them. Unfortunately the spec has aforementioned issues with its development...

Again, no. The problem lies at the beginning. Wayland is finished. It only seems like it's not finished because its developers don't have a system in mind that works on the desktop.

What? If it were complete, then why is it clearly missing features?
Who cares what the devs think, if it doesn't work it's not done.

@JupiterSky11
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JupiterSky11 commented Aug 8, 2025

Same as X11
Same as X11

Since when? I never had that.

We'll talk about it again when a buggy monitor doesn't return the right modelines via EDID. With Xorg, it's always possible to work around it specifying them by hand. On Wayland, you have to go through a very complicated procedure that involves creating a customised EDID using software that only exists on Windows and then loading them into the kernel. However, I constantly disconnect and reconnect monitors on Xorg without any problems, even though they are different in terms of connector type, size and resolution.

The user does not care, it should just work.
Also, what complicated process...? That was my experience with Xorg, not Wayland.

hahhahaha, when the compositor crashes, it crashes your entire session. What are we talking about? All it takes is a third-party plugin in Gnome-Shell to crash the entire graphics system.

Maybe it wasn't a crash then? Honestly no idea, it was just kinda fucked on my system.
Imagine using anything Gnome though xD

False: https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/wayland-fedora-gnome-kde-neon-amd-graphics-benchmark.html

Certified "works on my machine" moment. I experience lower latency on Wayland, and I can push my games to higher framerates. Just how it rolls I guess?
Despite having used KDE for a moment for the sake of "VR doesn't work on Gnome", I now use Hyprland. I do remember having better performance on Plasma (I think it was 5 at the time) but obviously without all the DE stuff I get loads better performance. Something-something GUI is bloat.

@JupiterSky11
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I will say again that I'm not a fan of Xorg being dropped so swiftly, but I know the reason is purely for the sake of saving precious developer time.

@probonopd
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One thing I have noticed about this post is that it claims "Wayland breaks Y", and then lists things that only exist in an Xorg environment. Like, of course it does that? It's not Xorg, why would it work with Xorg tools?

If it doesn't run our existing software that was written over decades for X11, then at the very least it needs to provide a clearly documented migration path. E.g., "don't use function A anymore, use function B instead". But to this day no one could explain to me how to do the most basic things, e.g., what to replace xkill with.

Wayland fixes more things for me than it breaks. I have an NVIDIA card, and it works better on Wayland now.

My guess is that your card is way newer then than mine.

I forgot screen tearing is even an issue.

I don't even know what screen tearing is. Seriously. (But then, I am not a gamer.)

@JupiterSky11
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JupiterSky11 commented Aug 8, 2025

If it doesn't run our existing software that was written over decades for X11, then at the very least it needs to provide a clearly documented migration path. E.g., "don't use function A anymore, use function B instead". But to this day no one could explain to me how to do the most basic things, e.g., what to replace xkill with.

Yeah this is one of those "FOSS issues" that I mentioned... I guess someone should write some docs huh?
I'll look into workarounds and migrations for some of the issues in the spare time, maybe I can come up with something. I'll post it here if I can.

@guiodic
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guiodic commented Aug 8, 2025

If it doesn't run our existing software that was written over decades for X11, then at the very least it needs to provide a clearly documented migration path. E.g., "don't use function A anymore, use function B instead". But to this day no one could explain to me how to do the most basic things, e.g., what to replace xkill with.

Yeah, but the big problem is that in many cases you dont have a function to do what you need. And even when you have it, probably it is compositor-specific.

@Consolatis
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I don't even know what screen tearing is. Seriously. (But then, I am not a gamer.)

Basically a buffer being written to while its currently scanned out to the display. It usually results in part of the screen showing an earlier frame and another part showing the current frame.

@affhp
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affhp commented Aug 8, 2025

I will say again that I'm not a fan of Xorg being dropped so swiftly, but I know the reason is purely for the sake of saving precious developer time.

This is classic "embrance, extend, extinguish".

Maybe you just forgot how the XLibre project was under tremendous attack in the past few months. A lot of smear campaign took place during that time.

That cannot be simply explained by "saving precious developer time".

@reaperx7
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reaperx7 commented Aug 8, 2025

I have an NVIDIA card, and it works better on Wayland now.

What does "works better" mean here?

"Works better" as in:

  • No screen tearing

X11 doesn't have tearing if you enable TearFree and VariableRefreshRate in the conf file. RTFM. Nvidia has this also. It's not just an AMD and Intel thing, but then again, you chose the absolute worst supported GPU for GNU/Linux so... That's a you problem, not an us problem.

  • Multi-monitor VRR

See above and RTFM.

  • Plugging in new displays just works

X11 does this also via EDID and udev. RTFM. Monitors are devices under GNU/Linux also.

  • No more crashing, black screens, or "it just won't show anything"

X11 only did this from a few drivers that were problematic. Mainly Nvidia. After a kernel module rebuild, most went away. On Intel and AMD this is non-existent.

  • Performance

X11 uses less resources than Wayland and has been noted under several benchmarks to run games within a 1-5% better performance margin...

@reaperx7
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reaperx7 commented Aug 9, 2025

I will say again that I'm not a fan of Xorg being dropped so swiftly, but I know the reason is purely for the sake of saving precious developer time.

This is classic "embrance, extend, extinguish".

Maybe you just forgot how the XLibre project was under tremendous attack in the past few months. A lot of smear campaign took place during that time.

That cannot be simply explained by "saving precious developer time".

What precious time? They've wasted 15 years on a dead end project that has not even made a meaningful dent into being useful for anything outside of a smartphone.

@reaperx7
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reaperx7 commented Aug 9, 2025

I don't even know what screen tearing is. Seriously. (But then, I am not a gamer.)

Basically a buffer being written to while its currently scanned out to the display. It usually results in part of the screen showing an earlier frame and another part showing the current frame.

Only seen it happen once back in 2002 on a Voodoo4 4500 when I tried using it under Slackware with Xfree86.

Haven't seen it since.

@JupiterSky11
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Not our problem.

I am recounting my experiences here. Not passing blame on anyone. Yes, it isn't your problem that I had an Nvidia 1070ti when I migrated to Linux. It's also not your problem that I bought a 3080 later. By that logic it's not anyone but your problem that "Wayland breaks everything". Not useful.

RTFM

Assembly can simulate the entire universe too. (just... a fantastically absurd analogy. Not very useful though)
I am speaking on experience, not capabilities. My experience is better on Wayland because that is where developer support is. That is what I was trying to say in that message. It didn't "Just Works(tm)" with Xorg, and it is a lot closer to "Just Works(tm)" with Wayland. For me.

The bigger point I am making, the important one that is, is that the migration to Wayland is being done poorly. Wayland isn't coming to take your lunch money, it's just a spec. Plasma and Gnome have sacrificed compatibility on the way over, which is bad.

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